[SixOfSpades]

Devv, I quite agree with most of your points. I'll explore these a bit more, though:

Originally posted by Devv: Glorfindel was a bad-ass elf altogether, he had been to Valino, so had seen the light and was one of the calaquendi. They don't get much more badass than this, except for the Noldor that had seen the light of valinor too like Galadriel. Even Elrond wasn't sposed to be very powerful, he was a lore master and healer and also had some very strong roots, but not very old "in elf terms." Not powerful compared to the old of the Noldor anyway

As Olorin pointed out, there seem to be two Elves named Glorfindel. Either Tolkien suffered a bit of laziness and forgot that the name had already been used, or the 2nd Glorfindel was named after the first. Since the name means "golden-haired," it could quite logically be applied to any number of Elves. As to whether the Glorfindel in LotR has been to Valinor or not, I would probably say no. He is of the Noldor, and is described as an Elf-Lord, but he was probably born in the 2nd Age, long after the Trees were killed.
As for Elrond not being powerful, I must point out that his power was great indeed, but only extended in a very quiet way: Secrecy and preservation for his lands and his people, very similar to Galadriel. The fact he is held in such high esteem by all peoples, despite doing nothing more exciting than serving as a Herald for the Last Alliance of Elves and Men, says a lot. So does the fact that he was selected to hold one of the Three Rings.

I was intrested to read how you viewed The Prince of Dol Amroth [img]smile.gif[/img] I guessed he was a human, perhaps Numenorian that had some elven blood in him and his people too, but it wasn't explained too well...

Last night, I dug out my copy of LotR again, to make sure I hadn't made an ass of myself over Nimrodel & Dol Amroth....it seems that there was a whole community of Elves in the region of Belfalas, which was a popular place to take ship to Valinor, very like the Grey Havens. Apparently, with a good-sized population of Elves (of all stripes) located in the middle of a large Numenorian kingdom, a fair amount of interbreeding occurred. After a few generations, the resulting offspring were extremely Mannish (Boromir could not be prejudiced against Elves with a Half-Elven Prince defending Gondor's right flank), but still carried enough evidence of their Elven heritage for Legolas to recognize it an Age later.

Originally posted by Tancred: Anyone who had the lore to make an informed choice could see that to be an Elf was to have a sorrowful existence. The Elven race sums up one of the key themes of Lord of the Rings; loss, and dealing with loss.

Hold on a minute--you make it sound like the entire race is whimpering and curling up into a fetal position to die. The only way in which the Elves are fading is that not only is the Enemy causing them to die (an incredible and irreparable loss), but it's even killing them faster than they can reproduce. They have no choice but to abandon the sinking ship that is Middle-Earth; I'm sure their cities in Aman are quite prosperous, and I'd hardly call that a "sorrowful existence."

If I had to pin down a central them of Tolkien's works, it would be that ALL things, Elven or not, diminish with the passage of time, and the present can never attain the glories of the past. The Trees can never bloom again, Man shall never again know the like of Beren or Turin, forever gone is the glory that was Khazad-dum. Morgoth was exiled and replaced by Sauron, whose destruction signaled the departure of the Istari, as well. The greatest single Evil remaining in the world would be....Shelob, perhaps, unless there's another Balrog somewhere, and the greatest left to oppose them would be....Bombadil, perhaps, or Fangorn. All things grow small.

The Elves put a brave face on the absolute tragedy that is their history and destiny. I'd want no part of that.

Ah, but instead of a choice between Elf and Man, let's make it between Noldor and Vanyar. The Vanyar remained in Valinor all through the First Age, strumming their harps, and only set foot on Middle-Earth just long enough to help in throwing down Utumno and laying open its pits. The Noldor, however, fought a many long and bloody wars against the Enemy, with deeds fell, fair, and foul, with deeds of epic honor, courage, and treachery. The Vanyar spent more time singing, but the Noldor had a lot more to sing about. Give me Noldor any day.

[ 09-16-2003, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]