Ironworks Gaming Forum - View Single Post - Diminishing Returns on higher level characters

Dace De'Briago · 03-14-2005, 06:13 PM

As has already been stated, higher level characters DO get less 'bang for buck' when they level up. The single saving grace for most high level characters is the HLA proficiency pool - but are these always worth staying on the straight and narrow for?

(the answer is no, I'm not going to debate why, simply put a powergamer can get far more out of a dual classed character)

I will also state that a DUAL class character is ALWAYS better than a multi-class character of equivalent level once the original class abilities have been reactivated. On a simple level: hit point, weapon proficiencies (mmm grand mastery) and kits.

Generally:

+ Always dual at a high level. As stated above, the principle of diminishing returns means that the best point to dual is between level 20 and 26, we maximise the potential of both classes to the fullest by doing this.
+ Re-roll until you get good stats, never cheat the ability scores in.
+ If you don't get maximum HP on level up, reload (or install the ease-of-use component that does it for you).
+ Always plan your proficiencies and thieving abilities in advance - do not waste points (e.g. if you are dualling to a fighter, there is no point using your planned final weapon as your first class - wasted points. E.g. 2. You know that your characters dexterity is going to increase by one point in the future, do not have your hide in shadows at 150% and let your dexterity move it upto 155%, use 5 of the % points in another skill and let the dexterity bonus increase the ability). ALWAYS PLAN AHEAD!!! (Pff noob powergamers [img]tongue.gif[/img] ).
+ Choose complimentary dual classes. Some combinations work better than others.
+ Alignment really should not matter to a properly powergamed character. 90% of the time you will be choosing the EVIL path later in the game to get the better abilities that path offers - classes with alignment restrictions should usually be avoided (exception Ranger > Cleric).
+ If you are planning on dualling to a mage character, save ALL of your scrolls until the point of dual classing. When you dual simply scroll them all and dance with joy as you hit level 11.

The BEST dual class combinations (in no particular order are as follows):

Cleric > Mage : Massively powerful character. Able to take advantage in the early game with a high Wisdom score (typically 21 on import from BG1) and LOTS of spells. The Mage transformation can easily be offset by the scribing of scrolls, typically levelling up to level 11 as a mage simply by scribing all of the scrolls you have retained prior to the dual class. We get spells all of the way up to L9 as a mage, and the lesser number of L9 spells is somewhat offset by the characters high wisdom score and the potential for Wish abuse. Did I mention HP? Better than regular mages as well

(EDIT: DUH!!!)

Assassin > Fighter (25/27 or 24/28): This character is an excellent warrior for those of you wishing to play a silent killer style fighter. Gets benefits from the Assassin Poison Weapon ability before his Assassin class re-activates. Typical Assassin > Fighters need both high strength and dexterity scores. This character is amazingly well suited to dual wielding Katanas (backstab x7 with base d10 damage) - do not put proficiency points into the weapon until you become a fighter, NEVER waste proficiency points. We also get to choose the Assassination and Use and Item HLA's.

Kensai > Mage (21/22, you knew this was coming): A perfectly complimentary class. By dualling at level 21 we get to take double advantage of the Kensai Kai/Weapon proficiencies (they go up every 3 levels). We get to choose a couple of fighter HLAs and get grand mastery, we also get the bonus of a very low base armour class for a mage. Oh, how could I forgotten to have mentioned LOADS of hit points. A HUMAN fighter > Mage at maximum level making the right selections throughout the game can have upwards of 250HP, slightly scary when you think of him casting a certain level 6 spell that improves his fighting ability...

Ranger > Cleric: The primary stated bonus for this dual class is to open the druidic spheres of magic up for the cleric class. The cleric aspect benefits from the fighter key benefits, notably weapon proficiencies, THAC0 and hit points. Because the Ranger gets dual wielding FREE, we save 2 proficiency points right away to pump into other weapons. Bear in mind that we should choose blunt weapons for specialisation so we arent dissapointed when the cleric weapon restrictions are in operation (maces and flails work nicely).

OK, I'll shut up for 5 now, thoughts on that?

03-14-2005, 06:13 PM	#4
Dace De'Briago Silver Dragon Join Date: December 28, 2002 Location: Wales Age: 45 Posts: 1,617	As has already been stated, higher level characters DO get less 'bang for buck' when they level up. The single saving grace for most high level characters is the HLA proficiency pool - but are these always worth staying on the straight and narrow for? (the answer is no, I'm not going to debate why, simply put a powergamer can get far more out of a dual classed character) I will also state that a DUAL class character is ALWAYS better than a multi-class character of equivalent level once the original class abilities have been reactivated. On a simple level: hit point, weapon proficiencies (mmm grand mastery) and kits. Generally: + Always dual at a high level. As stated above, the principle of diminishing returns means that the best point to dual is between level 20 and 26, we maximise the potential of both classes to the fullest by doing this. + Re-roll until you get good stats, never cheat the ability scores in. + If you don't get maximum HP on level up, reload (or install the ease-of-use component that does it for you). + Always plan your proficiencies and thieving abilities in advance - do not waste points (e.g. if you are dualling to a fighter, there is no point using your planned final weapon as your first class - wasted points. E.g. 2. You know that your characters dexterity is going to increase by one point in the future, do not have your hide in shadows at 150% and let your dexterity move it upto 155%, use 5 of the % points in another skill and let the dexterity bonus increase the ability). ALWAYS PLAN AHEAD!!! (Pff noob powergamers [img]tongue.gif[/img] ). + Choose complimentary dual classes. Some combinations work better than others. + Alignment really should not matter to a properly powergamed character. 90% of the time you will be choosing the EVIL path later in the game to get the better abilities that path offers - classes with alignment restrictions should usually be avoided (exception Ranger > Cleric). + If you are planning on dualling to a mage character, save ALL of your scrolls until the point of dual classing. When you dual simply scroll them all and dance with joy as you hit level 11. The BEST dual class combinations (in no particular order are as follows): Cleric > Mage : Massively powerful character. Able to take advantage in the early game with a high Wisdom score (typically 21 on import from BG1) and LOTS of spells. The Mage transformation can easily be offset by the scribing of scrolls, typically levelling up to level 11 as a mage simply by scribing all of the scrolls you have retained prior to the dual class. We get spells all of the way up to L9 as a mage, and the lesser number of L9 spells is somewhat offset by the characters high wisdom score and the potential for Wish abuse. Did I mention HP? Better than regular mages as well (EDIT: DUH!!!) Assassin > Fighter (25/27 or 24/28): This character is an excellent warrior for those of you wishing to play a silent killer style fighter. Gets benefits from the Assassin Poison Weapon ability before his Assassin class re-activates. Typical Assassin > Fighters need both high strength and dexterity scores. This character is amazingly well suited to dual wielding Katanas (backstab x7 with base d10 damage) - do not put proficiency points into the weapon until you become a fighter, NEVER waste proficiency points. We also get to choose the Assassination and Use and Item HLA's. Kensai > Mage (21/22, you knew this was coming): A perfectly complimentary class. By dualling at level 21 we get to take double advantage of the Kensai Kai/Weapon proficiencies (they go up every 3 levels). We get to choose a couple of fighter HLAs and get grand mastery, we also get the bonus of a very low base armour class for a mage. Oh, how could I forgotten to have mentioned LOADS of hit points. A HUMAN fighter > Mage at maximum level making the right selections throughout the game can have upwards of 250HP, slightly scary when you think of him casting a certain level 6 spell that improves his fighting ability... Ranger > Cleric: The primary stated bonus for this dual class is to open the druidic spheres of magic up for the cleric class. The cleric aspect benefits from the fighter key benefits, notably weapon proficiencies, THAC0 and hit points. Because the Ranger gets dual wielding FREE, we save 2 proficiency points right away to pump into other weapons. Bear in mind that we should choose blunt weapons for specialisation so we arent dissapointed when the cleric weapon restrictions are in operation (maces and flails work nicely). OK, I'll shut up for 5 now, thoughts on that?