[wally p]

well to play devil's advocate, here are the responses:

a) You might not want to make Jahiera play healer when she makes such a good tank

1) rarely are healers needed in the heat of battle when healing potions are faster, are abundant, don't require memorization, and generally, do a better job of healing.

2) If tank means someone to soak up damage rather than dish it out, I don't see the conflict between casting while sitting in front of an enemy both dispensing clerical help and soaking up damage.

3) depending on the mods installed, the need for the entire library divine spells can vary greatly. In vanilla SoA and ToB, if combat healing is severely needed and must be non-potion based, usually something preventative has been overlooked.

b) Jahiera might want to memorize things like Iron Skins and Summon Elemental, not healing spells

1) most HP-replenishment spells are a no-go, not worth really memorizing even if you had a pure cleric, so the point of Jaheira memorizing them is made more moot.

2) Jaheira can combine the best of both worlds. Summon Woodland Beings, which is available right out of the first dungeon, is a first class summon in the early game. Replete with disabling spells and "mass cure," the summon is both healing and offense in one big nymphy package

3) Jaheira also can memorize Wondrous Recalls which adds a dimension of flexibility to her spell-casting. If you *really* want more Ironskins, bring them back. If you *really* need that Cure Critical Wounds or Chaotic Commands right now, call that back as well.

4) Divine spellcasters get a boatload of spells per level, easily more than their arcane counterparts. not having enough spell slots to be comfortable is not something clerics really experience. this is especially true if there is an exp-cap remover or ToB is installed, opening interesting HLAs.

5) Imoen is going to be in the party--a very strong mage. She can handle the heavy magic artillery and spare Jaheira's spell selection the directly offensive spells.

c) Sometimes, for difficult battles, you need more than one divine spellcaster. You might want Jahiera to play tank and memorize Iron Skins... but what if you need Chaotic Commands? Better to have a second cleric. But that's my opinion. Hell, you can get through the game with only one char, so what you do with your party is personal preference.

1) In vanilla SoA or ToB I have yet to encounter a situation wherein I needed a second divine spellcaster. In fact, with mods, I have not found this to be true either. And that's the point I'm disputing--not that such a thing would be nice or that some players might find it necessary, but that it is necessary for a BG player as you imply here and before, using the second person (impersonal):

I don't know Talia, but it appears that you need a cleric.

2) by the time those difficult battles roll around, Jaheira should have a lot of lvl 5 slots plus plenty of spots for wondrous recalls. It's probably not necessary to dedicate all of those to summon elementals (particularly when Imoen will probably have better summons at this point) or Ironskins--she'll probably have more than will be used before other partymembers need to rest.

3) on a side note--in an unmodded game, a lot of the cleric protection spells are made moot or rendered less useful by important mage or other druid spells and equipment. Why worry about being charmed when you can unleash mass invisibility and/or nature's beauty?

I agree that Aerie is a good pick, but I don't think that Imoen counts as a "half mage" or a quasi-thief. As she is, she is already tripped out to perform all necessary thief-duties in the game, as well as present a very formidable mage-presence. I would lean more towards getting 1 solid fighter type (Jaheira's not bad, but there are a lot of toys in the game that she can't use due to her Druid restrictions) Keldorn mebbe? and another hybrid type--I'm fond of Haer'dalis, myself, but I understand that it would be an understatement to say that he's not to everyone's taste. [img]smile.gif[/img]

and ultimately, it's all about taste--a party is balanced when one has fun, not necessarily because a "balanced party" = 2 fighter type + 1 C/M + 1 mage + 1 cleric + 1 thief, though that certainly is a fun party in its own right. I just wanted to point to the other side of the coin since I don't think there are parts of the game that require a cleric in the same way the game seems to require some form of thief.

[ 01-26-2004, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: wally p ]