[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Cerek Obama may be a moderately better speaker than Bush was, but he isn't that much better. When he doesn't have a teleprompter or scripted speech to follow, he has a far more difficult time. Not saying that's a horrible thing, just pointing out that the polish comes of his speech very quickly when he is in a live and unrehearsed setting.

Not true, there's no clips of him staring into space when faced with a difficult question, stammering like an idiot, or making things up because he doesn't understand what the question actually meant, but wants to maintain the illusion that he actually does. There are many of the other guy, go on Youtube and you'll find 'em. Hilarious. Letterman used them on his show for years also.

Almost all of his "live" appearances have been in front of a hand-picked audience with pre-screened questions. His "town hall" meeting on ABC several months ago was nothing more than a scripted infomercial. Even the reporters at the press conferences are encouraged to send their questions to the Press Secretary ahead of time. This is done under the guise of letting Obama "know what issues concern you and your viewers/readers", but of course what it really accomplishes is giving his writers time to script an answer for the question.

Untrue also, about scripted and pre-screened questions, look at those town-hall meetings and tell me if someone could make that shit up. Look at that Major Garret dude in the press conferences...hardly hand-picked. While yes, he will do some stuff which is all from speech and prompter and he will always do, I am very impressed with the fact that he isn't afraid to go off queue. I think he heard some of the prompter criticism coming from the right, and set out to demonstrate what a great, "ad lib" speaker he can be. Of course, speeches and lines will always and have always been written for presidents and politicians. I just think he can do either or, and do them amazingly.

Now, as for the health care system itself. While it definitely needs work, it does not necessarily need a complete overhaul. I have an old pickup truck and the brakes went out on it last time I used it. That means I need to get the brakes fixed, but it does not mean I need to rebuild the entire truck.

We disagree here. I am a little surprised. Sometimes, a car is so messed up it needs to be scrapped and you need to buy a new one. Ideally we want to keep it, but when it is so messed up to the point where its just rotten, you want to rebuild from the base up

There is propoganda in the form of "horror stories" on both sides of the health care issue. For every example you list of someone being dropped or denied payment under the US system, I can name someone who has suffered excessively or died under the Euro system. And these are first-hand accounts. I had lunch with some of former classmates earlier this week. One of them has family in several European countries and she named incident after incident (in different countries) where they had suffered due to lack of proper health care.

There is very little propoganda on the pro health care reform side, compared to the absolute insanity and stupidity and overall idiocy we are seeing on the right atm. Even their conservative leaders are surprised by the level of hate. I am more sickened at the level of misinformation.
Nobody "dies" under the Euro system, lol. I know nobody who had died waiting for treatment, or has expereinced 'ration" care etc. I have lived in multiple European countries too.

Tell me of some of these examples, because they are absolutely alien to me. What people don't understand is, in most of Europe, you can choose to pay for your healthcare like Americans do if you so wish to. If you really had an issue with the free system, you could go to a private hopsital and pay. Most american hospitals are what Europe would consider "private", yet they look the same and give the same treatment as the "public" ones - they just charge you a lot more. So, with this in mind, if someone died under the Euro system then they would have died twice under the US one. Because the US system demands that you pay them or it can refuse you treatment. The Euro system treats you for free - or treats you for a fraction of the amount it would cost you at home. These nations are healthier than America and are physically happier too. Their doctors get paid to encourage you to stop smoking, eat right, and excercise. The US doctors get paid when someone has gastric bypass surgery.

I am personally one of the "statistics" supporters like to quote when discussing the eeeeevil insurance companies. I have a chronic illness that has caused 7 major surgeries (to date), life-altering consequences and massive medical bills. My last stay in the hospital was for 6 weeks. When I got home, I had bills from about 15 different doctors, services and facilities. My hospital bill ALONE was over $250,000. I've had multiple surgeries under 3 different insurance carriers over the years. I have NEVER been "dropped" from coverage NOR had claims denied for the services I recieved. Now, to be honost, I did lose my manager position at a small hospital immediately after returning to work from my second surgery. I have no doubt I was fired because of the effect my two surgeries had on the insurance, but it wasn't the insurance carrier that dropped me. That decision was made by the hospital administrator.

See, this is a good story, one that makes me wonder why you ain't 100% on board with this reform.

That still leaves 5 major surgeries under two other carriers and I've had no problem with my claims being paid for any of those. During my last stay, I went to the local hospital and was then transferred to a much larger hospital in Atlanta. My bill at the local hospital (6k+) was paid in full, because my deductible had long since been met when that bill was submitted. I never paid a penny on the $250k bill from the other hospital either. One reason was a grievance we pursued due to severe negligence on the part of their nurses (which very nearly cost my life). The hospital "investigated" the matter and managed to produce "proper documentation" that the nurses had performed their jobs properly. I refused to send them any money and they quit sending bills after the second month.

The thing is, it wouldn't cost you 6k or 250k in other countries. You got very lucky here, where your insurance company actually footed the bill for you, and so it creates the illusion that the system is working for you. But 250k? My God, that is an untinkable amount just for your own health. Your own country expects you to pay that just for the right to survive. I find this fundamentally wrong.