[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin Insults? Hardly, just the facts! Which I can handle, but apparently you might not be able to, or you would not begin by whining in type about your last go around. Now that has been clarified, either move on, or move along! Yes we do have many accessories that are socialized here. However, when was the last time the government took over a civilian market business through direct tax money? I have spent 14 years abroad, and am married to a mainland European. Her family dislikes the current system, and would like to see the system of days gone by return. Here, socialized health care? All one really needs to do is understand Medicaid and Medicare, and presto, the USA has had socialized health care for over 30 years. Why spend trillions to create something that is already there? Or is that where the lack of greed and level headiness comes into play?

....You just accused me of rambling and that my "posts don't make sense" somedays. I pointed out this was the very criticism I gave to you previously, along with many other members of the board including board moderators. I did not bring it up, you did. Nor did I mention your name in a thread that had no posts by me in it, you mentioned mine...At least own that. Or read above to confirm it.

I am happy to be here, to have this discussion and am intrigued that you invited me here, so lets have it, but minus the bullshit, k?

Yes we do have many accessories that are socialized here. However, when was the last time the government took over a civilian market business through direct tax money?

I don't know when. It's odd, but just because it has never happend does not mean it is sinister. At a press conference, when questioned about it, Obama said he's not looking to own the auto-industries, just bail them out of their messes. The government has chosen to take over in a time of dire need and deliver them a lifeline. What is so wrong with this? I mean, if they don't relinquish their "ownership" of these companies I might be like "Wtf are they doing?" But they say they intend to, so let's see. What do people actually think is happening here...that the government will start taking over all the companies in the USA and we will all work for the first black president? It's ridiculous, unrealistic and bordering on conspiracy-theorist. This isn't something that can go unproven though, we will see if this is what happens in the next year or so.

I have spent 14 years abroad, and am married to a mainland European. Her family dislikes the current system, and would like to see the system of days gone by return. Here, socialized health care? All one really needs to do is understand Medicaid and Medicare, and presto, the USA has had socialized health care for over 30 years. Why spend trillions to create something that is already there? Or is that where the lack of greed and level headiness comes into play?

You honestly think that medicare and medicaid work? The HMO's and pharmaceutical companies dominate it, and it has become so corrupt and discriminatory to the point where it is simply broken. In theory, it is a good thing, but in practice, it sucks. Ask Roberthebard about his experiences with it, and tell me if it is "Universal". If you don't know form your own experiences how broken it is, I can assure you, it is. Profit, greed and medical discrimination are the main problems. Medicare has become just one giant HMO.

You say "her family dislike the current system". In the USA or in Europe? If in Europe, where? Because each country is different, some are not fully universal, but most are. And pretty much all of them work better than the USA. In Ireland, I can visit the doctor for $30. That's without insurance. My prescriptions cost me around $6. The act of seeking out and buying medical insurance is very rare over there and most people only have it if it's given to them by employers as a perk. Why? Because it is not necessary like it is in the USA. The same visit, uninsured in america would cost me around $200-$300 maybe more as I haven't checked in a few years.

Before I had insurance, I went to the ER one time in the USA for a chest X-ray. All in all, I paid over 2k for a thirty minute visit. I was greeted by countless letters in the mail, with the names of doctors and the hospital and all kinds of charges that I knew nothing about. I imagine the prices have gone way up since then as this was years ago. After that, I had to get insurance, paying this company money every month, hoping that they wil "approve" of my claim when I need them to cover me and even then, they don't cover me entirely. The US healthcare system needs to be redone. Somehow, someway, universal, socialized or whatever it needs to be changed.