[Cerek]

Originally Posted by Luvian My position is that the current system works. I think parents can control what their kids are exposed to while in their house. I think parents can educate their children, explain to them what is right or wrong, and why. Not tell them, explain. So they understand the reasoning behind it, so they can reproduce that reasoning. The first time kids have to be out of the direct supervision of their parents and in "the village" as you call it is for school. You've got five to six years to build a good base in them before that. And you can always chose the school. You control who your kids hang out with. You can investigate them, their parents, you can decide if they are a good influence for your kids. You can also chose what extended network your kids will be exposed to. Send them to church if you want. Send them to a religious school, send them to private camps, to the sport team approved by your moral group. School is really the only outside factor in a growing kid's life. You control the tv. You control the computer. You control who he sees, what he does. You talked about positive reinforcement. Positive reinforcement is probably the parent's most powerful tool. Through all the above you shape his life. You shape his background, you shape the lens by which he sees life. You have all the tools you need to raise your kids. The same tools which all parents have, have had since the beginning of humanity. If in his first fifteen years you haven't be able to instill a sense of right in your kid, well you failed. You chose who you hang out with and where you live. I see nothing wrong with Mature games because it isn't a problem in my direct family, it isn't a problem in my extended family, it isn't a problem in my circle of friends and it isn't a problem in my local shops as they would not let a minor have access to such games. In short, it isn't a problem in "my village". Mature products are only a problem if you can't trust your kids to make the right choice and if you played your cards right you shouldn't have to doubt them. Do you doubt your kids? Have you failed to pass on your moral values? You are exposing your child to alcohol. Society is exposing your child to alcohol. How do you know they won't become drunkards? Alcohol IS harming your child's health, as much as violent or sexual products are. Probably even more, as they are much more likely to start drinking than they are to start killing. Why won't they become drunkards? Because you sensibilized them against alcohol. Who not just sensibilize them against violence? Against casual sex?

How many children do you have, Luvian? I would like to know how your efforts to control every aspect of their life and social interaction is working.

To quote your favorite new saying, parenting is hard.

And, speaking from personal experience, expecting to control every aspect of their development and social interaction is doomed from the start. The more controlling you try to be, the more rebellious your kids are likely to be. If you have kids, this is a truth you already know. If you don't have kids, you'll find out how true it is soon enough.

The fact is that kids have their own individual personality and there are some aspects of that you will NOT be able to control, regardless of how hard you try.

As for not allowing your children to have access to "mature" games, ROTFLMAO, lotsa luck on that one. If it's in the house, they WILL find it if they want to. I knew every nook and cranny of our house when I was growing up and I was a LOT better at finding "hidey holes" than my parents were. I found my dad's Playboy magazines with no effort at all. When he moved them, it took me two days to find them again.

As for controlling what school they go to and who they hang out with, let me know how that works out too. I'm divorced now and my ex is sending our oldest boy to a different school than I want him to go to - and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. Last year, she took all 3 boys out of the school they had attended all their lives and put them in a new school because it was more convenient for her. Again, there was absolutely NOTHING I could do about that, so I just had to make the best of the situation. I also can NOT control who my kids hang out with in school, since the teachers kinda frowned on me staying with them all day long. Even if I did do that, I had 3 boys in 3 different grades, so how do I control who each one of them is hanging out with for the entire day.

If you have children and are able to control their lives as completely as you suggest without them resenting you or rebelling against your control, then you have may awestruck admiration. But I'm guessing you don't have children of your own yet. Once you do, you will discover for yourself that things almost never go according to plan.