Quote:
Originally Posted by wellard
Now I have been a member of this forum since 2002 and used to lurk for a long time before then and I have no recolection of this being discussed, nor as Kakero,though I am prepared to accept that it may have been mentioned before, but does that make it common knowledge? How does the average punter going into the local wal mart to buy a game for himself or his kids know about this issue? Does the girl behind the sales counter say "log onto Ironworks and do a search of the forums for a thread on spyware fitted to the game before you put it onto your PC and if it is a problem then just return it for a refund before you open the box..." Nah I don't think so either Micah.
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Wellard, you're the only person who I would have even considered jumping back into this for.
Here goes - hang on, you got me going .... lol ...
First of all, we're partly discussing semantics ... you claimed it was secret, and it clearly was NOT. Okay, that's finished.
No, clearly the stilted scenario you presented is NOT going to happen. Why? Because the "average punter" doesn't buy these games anyway. They appeal to a specific group of people, most of who are very conversant in gaming systems and understand the differences between a FPS and CRPG and a tactical simulation. Most of them, by the very nature of the games they are playing, have high powered computer rigs, and can make the internet dance on the head of a pin. The average schmuck off the street is NOT going to buy NWN1 or Jade Empire or NWN2 or The Witcher. He'll buy a play station cartridge or a x-box 360 game.
The issues around the game just won't be discussed HERE at IW, Wellard. Probably because these forums are more social in nature and don't truly cater to gamers. No, the spoiler threads do NOT count folks. Those are typically "help me kill the evil wizard fooble" threads. The MOST i normally ever hear about a game BEFORE it is released is "Hey this game is coming out and developer C is doing and it's going to be great or developer A is doing it and it sucks". And the reaction, is typically "What are the system specs" and maybe ask someone whether it is a FPS game or whatever. THAT'S IT! So I don't EXPECT to get anything more than tips about new games here. If I want SOLID information about the game, I go to ....
The game's home page! What a novel concept. I can get much better and more accurate information there anyway! Usually either the distributor (Atari in the case of NWN1/NWN2) or the producer (ala Bioware / Obsidian) and occasionaly both have web sites for the game. The Witcher has an official site at Atari and another at CDProjeckt. Why not go there? I ALWAYS go to forums for ANY game I buy ahead of time. I went to the Witcher forums before I ordered that, I'm still scoping out the Mass Effect forums before I decide to order that. Anyone who think about ordering a computer game should be doing the same thing!
AND If you had done that with NWN1 before you bought it, you would have found any number of threads that clearly mentioned the securom issue. It was ALL over those forums!
I'm sorry but USUALLY the gamer who buys these games finds out about them on the internet. Heck I found out about several games here at IW. Why is it so unreasonable to expect the gamer to use the same tool to research them? Is that such a ridiculous stretch for him to research the game on the internet? Apparently some of you think so based on the reaction my stance is getting here.
I have been a long time participant on the Obsidian / Bioware / Black Isle / Interplay forums. I am a Moderator / Assistant Administrator on the Thieve's Guild NWN2 forums/ website. I usually pop in to forums for games that are in development that I am curious about at least once a week for 10 minutes to check things out. So yes, I am NOT your typical gamer. My current immersion level is MUCH deeper. NONETHELESS, back in 2002 I was NOT that heavily involved and I was still a relatively noob. Yet I was STILL aware of all the issues re: securom and NWN1. Perhaps you would consider that inside informatinon. I don't. The simple fact is that there wasn't anything at that time that I knew that anyone else, (especially those who claim to have been ignorant of those problems until now), could not have found out if they had taken the time to visit those very same forums! All present day forums have web searchs as well. USE THEM! What a NOVEL concept! Go to the forums where the developers and fans are discussing the game and maybe hear about potential issues related to it? *slaps his head* DOH!
I see many of you on this site regularly, MUCH more frequently than I am, so PLEASE don't tell me you can't spend a minute or two or ten or even an hour to search out the specifics of a given game via a web search and visit the forums. That excuse doesn't wash.
If you don't research what you are buying, you are simply an uninformed ignorant consumer. Would you buy a car without having it checked out before hand? Would you buy a TV or a major appliance without checking a consumer shopping guide? Hey, would you put 20W50 oil in your car if the manual called for 5W30? Would you run unleaded gas in a diesel engine? Of course you wouldn't! So why do you treat software ANY different?
Why spend anywhere from 1000$ to 3000$ and up to 5000$ on a fancy gaming rigs, and then bitch to beat all hell when some 50$ piece of software blows a machine to crap, and the potential problems with the software were KNOWN about in advance. I am sorry, wellard, but that is patently absurd! Buying software without researching it and THEN complaining about the ramifications of that purchase AFTERWARD is simply laughable. Caveat Emptor!
In the case of NWN2, since that is what triggered this whole discussion at the beginning, the total number of people who are actually experiencing verifiable securom related problems is small. (Read that again please - ACTUAL VERIFIABLE SECUROM RELATED PROBLEMS). Many of the problems that people lay at securoms doorstep are NOT securom related. I'm sorry that RTB may be one of them, truly, and I am sorry that you all think I am being unsympathetic to him. I really wish this had NOT happened to him. But I refuse to sit back and listen while everyone else throws up their hands, says "What a surprise! I had NO idea" and complains about this "evil secret software" It's TOTAL BS. The information was out there, and you could have found out if you had taken the time to, and it would NOT have been difficult for a group of people as intelligent as this.
Wellard, please check your pms.