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Old 09-04-2004, 10:11 PM   #10
Lucern
Quintesson
 

Join Date: August 28, 2004
Location: the middle of Michigan
Age: 42
Posts: 1,011
Nerull, if you're still thinking this through, I have a different perspective for you. I'm an anthropology student: bear with me lol. You might find it worthwhile to get through this long post though.

You can assign good/evil to a lot of things, because they're self-defined and rather arbitrary notions that change from culture to culture (or don't even exist for some).

Chaos and Order are somewhat less arbitrary, but still have a healthy dose of self-definition as everyone above has demonstrated. I think I can show you how chaos can actually be a side you could root for in a struggle against order, if you were to dichotomize the two and assign groups to one or the other.

Power is the ability to make binding decisions for another person, be it on a battlefield or a feudal farm.

Order has heirarchical structures, as most human groups have had since the beginning of agriculture (and possibly before, but it intensified with agriculture). So people within these structures generally have a specialized job and know their place in the pecking order. In a number of ways, people hold power over other people. A blacksmith can decide he doesn't want to make horseshoes for you, but does not have that choice if his lord asks the same. They are free to use that power in a good or evil way. Ideally in our society people won't abuse their power, but we know this is not always the case.

Because of the highly specialized division of labor and the overall organization of military, commercial, and social order in cities, counties, and monarchies, Order has many advantages over Chaos. They have more soldiers and can train them faster and more efficiently. They have better arms, armor, and supply structure. If positions are given by merit, they can even have more effective leaders on the battlefield and on the throne. They are technologically superior over chaos, because they have individuals who are specialized and have places to store knowledge. Order grows and expands its model of control geographically and among different groups. 'Barbarians' are those outside of the system, not yet dominated by it.

In this dichotomy, chaos is the resistance to hierarchical structure. Within the realm of Order dissidents and anarchists challenge the system to change, sometimes through violent resistance. Within order, those on the bottom have the least to lose and the most to gain from such upheaval. The artistocrats of Order have the most incentive for the system to maintain itself and expand. An Order vs Chaos theme could play out within a single kingdom or empire.

'Chaos' also exists outside of the realms of order. Groups of humanoids would have mostly isolated villages that might have to band together for protection against an organized oppressor. If these groups have a tendency towards what you might describe as 'evil', then these might be just as hierarchical and potentially cruel as the systems of Order. Others live without governance, without the power structures (or at least local governance and a weak power structure). They live a more egalitarian existence, which promotes peace and shuns violence. Since nobody holds the power in such a society, people could only look after themselves, but instead have a vested interest in sharing property and work with others. There wouldn't have to be (though there could still be) equality destroying classifications based on gender, race, or class. Age, however, is often acknowledged as somewhat hierarchical, since elders are regularly placed in positions of respect. People are free to do as they will. Law is replaced with cultural notions of morality unique to each group and maintained through shame or the threat of isolation from the community. They have (relative) egalitarianism, a unique value structure, and individual autonomy to lose when threatened by Order, and its something people have died trying to protect for millenia. There is still a loose structure here, but it is a voluntary one and not power-based.

Such 'autonomous collectives' (remember Monty Python? lol), would be the most in need of brave and powerful heroes to protect them from the armies of order. People know how to hunt and/or gather or keep small fields of crops, and generally share this work. There are a few people who have wholly different jobs in these societies: leaders and religious figures. Leaders are considered 'first among equals' in many of these groups, and are not leaders for life in many cases. Religious figures are usually trained from a young age in the secrets of their work, usually involving healing and performing rituals. This is, of course, where the clerics and wizards classes come in. Warriors could be anyone in the village (especially hunters), and rogue classes come from outside the village structure (except for scouts and bards)

You would also have to consider the range of skills and equipment that would be appropriate for such a community, but it presents a fun setting for a campaign that's far outside of 'good' and 'evil'. Order does evil in its imperialist expansion, but it does good in its ability to protect its citizens. Less structured communities can do 'good' with its egalitarianism and free will, but must 'do evil' to protect itself from the threat of Order just to survive.

If order still seems wholly good to you, it's because our world is overwhelmingly like my description of Order, and the parts of it that weren't like that were made to conform in the last few thousand years. Think Romans, think French, British, and Spanish colonialism, think Aztecs and their swift rise and fall as an empire, and think of the Native Americans after the US manifested its 'destiny'. Still think of Chaos as orcish barbarians knocking down the gate? Look up the Mundurucu of the Amazon, the Dani of Africa, or the Aymara of the Peruvian/Bolivian highlands. Thousands of such groups remain and hold on to some degree of their heritage. Order and Chaos can take any form you can imagine, in any degree of extremity towards either Chaos or Order. Just talking about this makes me want to play in such a campaign! The heroes would certainly need epic and heroic deeds to maintain their way of life against such adversity.
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