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Thorfinn · 03-17-2003, 06:32 AM

As someone who considers reloading cheating, my tactic has always been to evaluate your chances, maybe poke stuff a time or two to get some tactical information, then run like heck if I am not reasonably sure I can handle it. That encounter in particular, I took one look at him and said, yeah, someday. Not today.

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We came back after the first couple levels of Watcher's Keep, where we encountered stuff that failed my poke-it-and-see-if-it-bleeds test. At that point, we went in knowing what powers dragons have (drawn from, um, over 25 years of PnP gaming, though that knowledge could probably be had in casual conversation with all the money I have handed over to Ribald) and without any special buffs, took him out with missile fire. The group was in the 13-15th level range at that point. We intended to use Oil of Speed, (actually, I think the wife did) but after a couple rounds he was badly injured, and I thought why bother.

I was disappointed, though. Legendary creatures like that should be a serious challenge, not entered into lightly by any party, and a fair share of the Improved encounters, as well as many of the later groups in the City Encounters could take him out without much effort. Heck, a lone Kurosian could probably take him. Why is he still alive, and guarding what he is, if he can't stand up to a group sitting only about half-way to the XP cap?

If anyone cared to improve the dragon encounters, it seems to me that dragons have had 1,000 years to make traps around them, using the skills of charmed or intimidated dwarves, i.e., very well made traps. They have had 1,000 years to add magical enchantments to those traps. They would have dozens of golems standing about waiting for something to do. That nest of rats are really Polymorphed Umber Hulks and Spirit Trolls, and a single Dispel Magic would make it an entirely different encounter. Dragons would likely have several henchmen, charmed or not, and definitely would not waste the powers of his guys upstairs in a fruitless battle where they cannot effectively engage the party. Why doesn't he summon creatures in the midst of the spellcasters, wherever you placed them?

Remember the Orcs in the killing zone when you first went into that second area? If not for the castle architect who put the doors to the galleries IN THE AREA THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO CONTROL, (whom I suspect Firkraag ate for the oversight, then never bothered to have corrected) it would have been much more difficult, particularly if they had given them the AC bonus for being behind arrow slits, and emulated orcs dumping flaming oil through murder holes by having the entire floor treated as lava, i.e., no spellcasting since you are taking damage. (Yeah, I know that is beyond the range of a MOD, or at least suspect it is, but I can dream, right?)

And where do the master tacticians (Chief DigDug, or whomever, Tazok, etc.) make a stand? Somewhere where a single tank can easily block the door and protect the mages, who can totally annhilate them with impunity. A dragon is supposed to be highly intelligent, for pete's sake! He has successfully held off adventurers for the last thousand years, and would have seen a thing or two in his day. You would think that it might have occurred to him to put some kind of a trap that Tazok could trigger that turns the earlier room into a raging inferno.

Yeah, I know they crippled the dragon so he was beatable in the game, but why? Paladin's quest and all, but if I were the designer, I'd have kept the awe of dragon power intact by not having the dragon a part of the quest, instead an entirely optional, and very difficult, even "impossible" encounter. If I just had to have a dragon battle, I would have probably had him frozen at "nearly dead" like they did with so many others (githyanki captain comes to mind) then have him teleport to his real lair, challenging the adventurers to follow him into his lair, bedecked as I described above with traps, real henchmen, and the like.

03-17-2003, 06:32 AM	#3
Thorfinn Zhentarim Guard Join Date: February 24, 2003 Location: Indiana Age: 62 Posts: 358	As someone who considers reloading cheating, my tactic has always been to evaluate your chances, maybe poke stuff a time or two to get some tactical information, then run like heck if I am not reasonably sure I can handle it. That encounter in particular, I took one look at him and said, yeah, someday. Not today. SPOIL ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` We came back after the first couple levels of Watcher's Keep, where we encountered stuff that failed my poke-it-and-see-if-it-bleeds test. At that point, we went in knowing what powers dragons have (drawn from, um, over 25 years of PnP gaming, though that knowledge could probably be had in casual conversation with all the money I have handed over to Ribald) and without any special buffs, took him out with missile fire. The group was in the 13-15th level range at that point. We intended to use Oil of Speed, (actually, I think the wife did) but after a couple rounds he was badly injured, and I thought why bother. I was disappointed, though. Legendary creatures like that should be a serious challenge, not entered into lightly by any party, and a fair share of the Improved encounters, as well as many of the later groups in the City Encounters could take him out without much effort. Heck, a lone Kurosian could probably take him. Why is he still alive, and guarding what he is, if he can't stand up to a group sitting only about half-way to the XP cap? If anyone cared to improve the dragon encounters, it seems to me that dragons have had 1,000 years to make traps around them, using the skills of charmed or intimidated dwarves, i.e., very well made traps. They have had 1,000 years to add magical enchantments to those traps. They would have dozens of golems standing about waiting for something to do. That nest of rats are really Polymorphed Umber Hulks and Spirit Trolls, and a single Dispel Magic would make it an entirely different encounter. Dragons would likely have several henchmen, charmed or not, and definitely would not waste the powers of his guys upstairs in a fruitless battle where they cannot effectively engage the party. Why doesn't he summon creatures in the midst of the spellcasters, wherever you placed them? Remember the Orcs in the killing zone when you first went into that second area? If not for the castle architect who put the doors to the galleries IN THE AREA THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO CONTROL, (whom I suspect Firkraag ate for the oversight, then never bothered to have corrected) it would have been much more difficult, particularly if they had given them the AC bonus for being behind arrow slits, and emulated orcs dumping flaming oil through murder holes by having the entire floor treated as lava, i.e., no spellcasting since you are taking damage. (Yeah, I know that is beyond the range of a MOD, or at least suspect it is, but I can dream, right?) And where do the master tacticians (Chief DigDug, or whomever, Tazok, etc.) make a stand? Somewhere where a single tank can easily block the door and protect the mages, who can totally annhilate them with impunity. A dragon is supposed to be highly intelligent, for pete's sake! He has successfully held off adventurers for the last thousand years, and would have seen a thing or two in his day. You would think that it might have occurred to him to put some kind of a trap that Tazok could trigger that turns the earlier room into a raging inferno. Yeah, I know they crippled the dragon so he was beatable in the game, but why? Paladin's quest and all, but if I were the designer, I'd have kept the awe of dragon power intact by not having the dragon a part of the quest, instead an entirely optional, and very difficult, even "impossible" encounter. If I just had to have a dragon battle, I would have probably had him frozen at "nearly dead" like they did with so many others (githyanki captain comes to mind) then have him teleport to his real lair, challenging the adventurers to follow him into his lair, bedecked as I described above with traps, real henchmen, and the like.