[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: Here is a couple of different news article on the topic. This one is multi-faceted- http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0619-02.htm

A very interesting article, Chewbacca. It is - indeed - multi-faceted. There were a couple of paragraphs that particularly caught my interest....

Originally posted by Chewbacca. -snip- At the same time, Amnesty International USA (AIUSA) charged in a report released here Wednesday that about one- third of all children in the custody of U.S. immigration authorities spend at least some time in jail-like facilities designed to hold young offenders, where they may be subjected to shackling, strip searches, solitary confinement, and verbal abuse from guards and other detainees. -snip-

So now Amnesty International has gone from the implication in the Reuters article that abuse and detention in jail was arbitrarily applied to most (if not all) of the 5,000 unaccompanied children to the reality that roughly 1/3 are held in "jail-like facilities". This could mean anything from a holding cell to the hotel that young Jimmy from the first article was detained in. It's interesting how the actual statistics seem to shrink rapidly when exposed to the light of scrutiny. Amnesty International is making broad claims of widespread abuse, yet their own statistics don't back that claim up.

I've already addressed the issue of prisoners being shackled. I will readily concedet that strip searches and verbal abuse seem to be nothing more than an abuse of power. As for the solitary confinement, it is consistently mentioned as a punishment - not as a mandatory interment condition. In deference to the cases cited in Grojlach's opening article, I admit that the type of "misconduct" and the punishment warranted by that misconduct do seem to be grossly out of proportion in some case (not necessarily all..but at least some).

Originally posted by Chewbacca: The PHR report, which the group described as the "first systematic and comprehensive scientific study of the mental health of asylum seekers held in detention," was based on extensive interviews with 70 men and women currently or formerly detained in two INS facilities and three country jails in New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. Their ages ranged from 15 to 52, and the majority were from Africa, although the group also included seven from Eastern Europe, four from Asia, three from Latin America, and two from the Middle East.

Now this particular fact was very revealing...or so I thought. The PHR report is verifying the claims of Amnesty International based on the interviews of 70 former immigrants. I'm not a statistics expert, so I could be wrong, but 70 does not sound large enough to be a "representative example" for 5,000 immigrants. Yet PHR is extrapolating the data gathered from these 70 individuals and using it to justify accusations against the treatment of 5,000 other people...many of whom are not even being held in the same geographic area...much less the same facility...as the 70 subjects from the study.

Another factor that seems to keep popping up is the age of these "children"...so far, I don't recall seeing an interview done or incident cited involving ANY "child" under the age of 16...an age in which many of these "children" would be considered adults in the countries they are fleeing from. I'm sure the 5,000 mentioned by AI does include a proportionate share of toddler's and young children...but the fact is, there has not been a single allegation of abuse cited involving any children this young. Just an observation on my part.

Now...before many of you start believing I am a total ogre...I want to say that this article also contradicted the assumption I've held throughout this thread...that this situation involved the numerous aliens that try to enter the country illegally.

From MY interpretation of the article provided by Chewbacca, it appears that these are people who ARE trying to "follow the proper protocol" for entering the country and being granted asylum. They aren't trying to "sneak across the border" or ride over in a boat. They are coming on airplanes and seeking the proper authorities once they disembark.

So I have to stand corrected on the false assumption I've carried throughout this thread. Given these circumstances, I have to concur (at least to a degree ) with Chewbacca & Grojlach. It is a gross injustice to treat someone this way when they are trying to follow the proper protocol, but may just be unaware of what that protocol is.