Wonder if there's any Rogue experts here that could help me make a decision I'm 50/50 torn between! Both the builds I'm considering use the Subtlety tree to get Preperation (and Improved Cheap Shot if possible), but it depends whether I go combat or assassination for the rest of the build.

Here are the builds I'm considering for my Troll Rogue:

<font color="orange">21/8/22 build:

Assassination Talents (21 points)

# Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.

# Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.

# Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.

# Improved Slice and Dice - 3/3 points
Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 45%.

# Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.

# Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 30%.

# Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.


Combat Talents (8 points)

# Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.

# Improved Gouge - 3/3 points
Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 seconds.

# Improved Backstab - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.


Subtlety Talents (22 points)

# Master of Deception - 5/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 4)

# Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.

# Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 40%.

# Initiative - 5/5 points
Gives you a 75% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.

# Ghostly Strike - 1/1 point
A strike that deals 125% weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 seconds. Awards 1 combo point.

# Improved Sap - 1/3 point
Gives you a 30% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.

# Preparation - 1/1 point
When activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your other Rogue abilities.

# Improved Cheap Shot - 1/2 point
Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot ability by 10.
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<hr>

Vs:

<font color="white">0/27/24 build:

Assassination Talents (0 points)

# None


Combat Talents (27 points)

# Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.

# Improved Gouge - 3/3 points
Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 seconds.

# Improved Backstab - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.

# Deflection - 5/5 points
Increases your Parry chance by 5%.

# Precision - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.

# Riposte - 1/1 point
A strike that becomes active after parrying an opponent's attack. This attack deals 150% weapon damage and disarms the target for 6 seconds.

# Dual Wield Specialization - 5/5 points
Increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 50%.

# Improved Kick - 2/2 points
Gives your Kick ability a 100% chance to silence the target for 2 seconds.

# Blade Flurry - 1/1 point
Increases your attack speed by 20%. In addition, attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 15 seconds.


Subtlety Talents (24 points)

# Master of Deception - 5/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 4)

# Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.

# Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 40%.

# Initiative - 5/5 points
Gives you a 75% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.

# Ghostly Strike - 1/1 point
A strike that deals 125% weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 seconds. Awards 1 combo point.

# Improved Sap - 2/3 points
Gives you a 60% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.

# Preparation - 1/1 point
When activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your other Rogue abilities.

# Improved Cheap Shot - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot ability by 20.</font>
<hr>

So I am sacrificing:
</font>

• +5% parry chance (only really useful for PvE and against melee pets, helps warriors with overpower which isn't good)</font>
• Riposte (+150% damage and disarms target for 6 seconds for just 10 energy)</font>
• +5% to hit (19% miss rate instead of 24%)</font>
• +50% off hand damage (brings total off hand damage to 75% of normal)</font>
• Improved Kick (silences target for 2 seconds, will be excellent if timed correctly just before a Kidney Shot or Cheap Shot ends against casters)</font>
• Blade Flurry (+20% attack speed and attacks hit 2 opponents, stacks with Slice and Dice and the Troll Beserking ability, 3 min cooldown but benefits from Preperation)</font>
• Extra rank in Improved Sap (has it's uses, 60% chance to return to stealth after sapping)</font>
• 40 energy Cheap Shot rather than 50 energy</font>

For:

</font>

• +5% crit chance</font>
• +15% eviscerate damage</font>
• +45% slice and dice duration (1 combo point now = 13 seconds instead of 9)</font>
• Ruthlessness (Expose Armour, Rupture, Eviscerate, Slice and dice, Kidney Shot all get a 20% chance per combo point to add an additional combo point after being used)</font>
• Relentless strikes (20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy)</font>
• Lethality (+30% crit damage for sinister strike, ghostly strike, gogue, backstab, will stack nicely for backstab with opportunity and improved backstab)</font>
• Cold blood (100% crit chance for next sinister strike, backstab,. abmush or eviscerate, 3 min cooldown but benefits from Preperation)</font>

The +5% to hit chance is nice, but since 19% is the lowest attainable miss chance when dual wielding regardless of items, I figure I can pull back a few % with equipment that has +x% to hit chance with the Assassination build. Blade Flurry stacking with Troll Beserkig and Slice and Dice will produce several seconds of very fast attacks (ideally 30% + 30% + 20% = 80%). It comes down to a toss up therefore between having better raw DPS vs having massive burst DPS using cold blood and various other assassination talents.

Thoughts?

[ 06-08-2006, 06:25 AM: Message edited by: Zink Whistlefly ]

What do you want it for?

PVE endgame (instances or raiding?)
Solo play
PVP

Also what weapons are you using, swords or daggers or maces?

At the moment I'd like to focus on PvP, with the potential to respec for endgame PvE when i get there.

I'm planning on using dual daggers for openers (mainly ambush) and backstabbing against PvP opponents (running around like a lunatic and spamming BS) and changing to sword/dagger (macro) for maximum Sinister Strike efficiency for PvE

[ 06-08-2006, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: Zink Whistlefly ]

It really depends on your weapons, i have an alt rogue that i use just pvp on now i have my gear. With daggers, perditions blade and core hound tooth i would say Seal fate build is one of, if not the best pvp dagger build out there.
Seal Fate dagger PVP build i use:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...50003000000000
Sorry bout the crazy url length ( i dont know how to shorten it [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

If your swords, then dont ask me [img]tongue.gif[/img] . Never liked swords or the combat tree in general.
Edit: lrn2spell

[ 06-08-2006, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: NagaSaki ]

Thanks NagaSaki - looks like an interesting build. Just out of curiosity, what's your main combo point generator with daggers? Sinister Strike doesn't benefit as much from low damage range weapons...do you tend to use the usual ambush/cheap shot/gouge -> backstab?

My limited knowledge of rogues, although my dad has a 60 one, got up to rank 11 I think (the joys of working from home *grin*).

That is pretty much the rogue-dagger PVP build, as posted above.

The whole build relys on your cirt chance and Seal fate really cos crit= extra combo point. I open with an ambush then straight backstab, then depending on how many points and which class i'm facing, i'd either choose kidneyshot or evis, if i kidneyshot i just auto attack them, waiting for energy and restealth if possible or wait till KS is about to run out, then gouge and restealth.

Improved gouge allows for the restealthing which is vital to keep control of the fight- depending on what they're dojng afte i restealth i would either ambush or if they're jumping round like crayz then just Cheapshot + backstab, Rinse and repeat how you like [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Easier load time for posting your build and discussing it can be found at www.wowhead.com

This is my build too and you described the lifestyle of this build precisely. I totally agree about the re-stealthing being vital or I'm toast.

:popcorn:

My level 8 rogue is watching for more learning and info.