Cerek, I didn't want to derail the Good News/Bad News Thread (who knows where this could lead?) but you said something I wouldn't mind some elaboration on...

<font color=deepskyblue>Interesting question, <font color=red>Lanesra</font>.

Did he ever kill anybody? That answer is unkown. However, he would certainly be "guilty" of other sins.

As a popular bumper sticker says "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven." ;) </font> </font>[/QUOTE]Italics we inserted by me.


In my understanding, Jesus was without sin, therefore being able to pay the price for all sin. Or were you implying that he was 'guilty' by 'osmosis' ie: he absorbed or took responsibility for all sinners' sin?

I'll take a swing at that, Leonis. According to orthodox theology, Jesus was capable of sin, because He had a human nature. (He had a Divine nature, too) However, He did not sin, allowing Him to atone for the sins of fallen Man.

Now, I can't give a deep philosophical answer to something like this, but my belief is that Jesus was, and still is, perfect as He was God in a human form as the Son of God. Whether He was capable of sin I have no idea, but I know as a Christian the Jesus did not commit any sins...just my thoughts.

Yes, Satan tempted Him with all of the glory of the Earth, during the Forty Days and Forty Nights that He spent in the Wilderness, but He resisted the temptations, which we now honor with Lent.

At the risk of stirring the pot, I always go back to that story of him and his parents heading into town one day, when he was about thirteen or so, and he just ups and takes off!! No "hey, I wanna go with Lumpy and Eddie", no "I'm headin' over to my other dad's place" or anything like that.

And when they find him in the temple, he acts like they should have known all along where he would be.

Now, I've gotta tell you, that if my kids pull something like that, I will call up TL to find a way to get that converted over from "not paying attention" to "disrespecting your parents", which really sounds like a violation of that "honor thy mother and father" rule.

So, is that a sin?

And what if he had sinned? Would that be relevant? A great leader or doer of great deeds is always crucified *pun intended ;) * for the small mistakes by his distracters.


Interesting post Leonis, even for us atheists [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Heeey, don't get me involved. The last guy who prosecuted Jesu Christi wound up with a bad reputation for all eternity. [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img]

In his defense, I'll say that the first time a kid does something like this, you correct them. Once they KNOW, then afterword its disobedience. ;)

Of course, for me Jesus was a great prophet who changed the world. Like many great men (or memorable men), his deeds have grown to mythic proportions. But, in the end, like all of us, only human. ;)

[ 06-16-2003, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

<font color=deepskyblue>Judging from <font color=silver>Leonis'</font> post - I must have REALLY misunderstood <font color=red>Lanesra's</font> question. I thought the "bloke in my sig" he was referring to was the person being welcomed into Heaven by Jesus. And I took his question to mean "Is this bloke that is being accepted into Heaven by Jesus "guilty"?

That's why I said that he most certainly WOULD be guilty of sin...whether it was murder or not was unkown.

As far as Jesus Himself is concerned....NO WAY, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! HE NEVER SINNED!!! He WAS tempted (as pointed out by <font color=orange>Attalus</font>). Satan literally promised Him the entire world to rule over (among other things)....but Jesus never wavered. He resisted and denied the temptations that Satan tried to use on Him. Still, He had to face these temptations so that He could more fully understand why we mere "flesh and blood" mortals DO give in to temptations so easily.

The best explanation I have heard regarding this was from a fellow I met in Florida. He said very simply...<font color=yellow>"Jesus could NOT have sinned. If He did, He would have had to die for HIS sins...and therefore could NOT have died for ours"</font>. Those who believe in the Crucifixition and Resurrection understand that it would have been impossible for these Holy Events to occur had Jesus committed even one sin.

<font color=paleteal>Bungleau</font> - When Jesus went to the temple (at the age of 12), he WAS "honoring His Father"...His Heavenly Father. This was the first miraculous sign to offer "proof" that Jesus Christ was - indeed - the Son of God. What other 12-year-old child could possibly teach the elders of the church things they didn't know? As for Joseph and Mary, remember that they had known since the Immaculate Conception that Jesus was the Son of God and that He would eventually be called to do something of this nature. They may not have been expecting it to occur exactly when it did...but Jesus was correct in acting as if "they should have known all along" where he was.

Jesus was NOT the same as your children or mine. He was the Son (and the physical manifestation) of our Holy Creator. This is a fact that Joseph and Mary accepted from the very beginning.</font>

Also, Bungleau, I have always been instructed that "Honoring your father and your mother" meant making sure that they never lacked for anything, and always treating them with respect, as did Noah's righteous sons who approached him backwards as he lay drunk (!) in his tent, naked, so as not to see their father in his nakedness, and covered him with a cloak. I have never heard it explained as slavish obedience. Jesus acted with anger on occasion, as when he drove the money-changers from the temple, and cursed the fig tree for being barren, but this was righteous anger, not the sin of Wrath.