I just watched a program on this -

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0820-06.htm

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01.n1521.a05.html

This single individual has ruined the lives of so many people. It was so patently bleeding obvious Tom Coleman is a liar.
I'm flabberghasted that this could even get remotely close to going to court, let alone result in 800 years of prison sentences.

The alleged Mr Big lives in a wooden shack with no lighting. He collects and crushes (underfoot) old tin cans. He plead guilty because he didn't stand a chance....he knew it.

I'm not knocking the US judicial system per se...
But how can travesties of justice on this scale happen in a country as advanced as the USA?

I'm stunned, not a single shred of evidence....just the words of one man.

EDIT. I know it was 1999 but the program didn't elaborate on any changes made, and 4 years isn't so long ago.

[ 03-02-2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Charlie ]

This should be exhibit A on why the death penalty should be scrapped. If miscarriages of justice like this can happen, then it's practically certain that in cases involving the death penalty, you *will* kill innocent people.

But i don't want to hijack this onto a death penalty debate (which would be wildly off-topic). The main focus of this is the racist undertones of what was done. What really happened was that half of the male black population was rounded up and arbitrarily jailed for being black by the white people. It's a disgrace that this type of thing can happen, but we know it does. What's the bet that Coleman and his police associates will totally avoid any court cases/liability in this matter? My money's on them ending up being exonerated. Not because they're innocent, but because they're white.

One of the more striking accusations was that the guy who got the longest sentence was done because of an inter-racial marriage. Sadly, I can well believe this. In our societies, there really are some people so stupid as to believe interracial marriages are bad.

Also sadly, when talking to some of my relatives about the possibility of moving to Alabama, a few of them immediately proclaimed "Why would you want to go there? They're all a bunch of racists."

As false as this statement is, it's stories like this that keep the myth of an institutionally racist collection of southern states alive, and have garnered them the reputation even over here in the UK of being just as racist as they were 50 years ago.

Sad. :(

This is outradeous and totally indefensable. I don't know about Texas, but here in Alabama there is alot of mandatory sentencing. Maybe some of the sentences were so stiff because they have mandatory drug sentencing or something like that.

Hi Reeka.

I don't have problems with the sentences. The fact that it ever got to court and the fact that they were covicted without a shred of evidence in the first place is the disturbing part. Then the fact that it's so obvious they are innocent and yet are still in prison.

Tom Coleman and the others involved should be bought to book. How this ever got to court is incomprehensible.

<font color = lightgreen>It can happen here because too many people don't think; rather, they act like a bunch of Chicken Littles. 10 years ago I saw a Gallup survey in which a majority of the respondants would gladly give up some of their Consitutional rights (such as protection against unreasonable search and seizure) in order to win the War on Drugs. :rolleyes:
We tried to win such a war once against alcohol. All that did was make alcohol all the more appealing and help make criminal organizations rich and powerful. Prohibition didn't work yet even still law enforcement agencies refuse to see the logic of the facts that the War on Drugs is not winnable.

Cases like this point out that the only winners in the War on Drugs (besides the drug suppliers) are law enforcement people who can get lots of recognition for making drug-related arrests and District Attorneys who can prosecute lots of drug cases. The rest of us--all of us--simply suffer.

California has a "mandatory seizure" law. Suppose you own a house and one weekend you decide to throw a party. You invite lots of people from your workplace and one of them, without you knowing about it, decides to inhale a little cocaine they bought on the way over. Unfortunately, the police had been watching the dealer, follow this person to your house, and come crashing in during your party. Upon finding the cocaine, the State is now able to take away your house, and there is nothing you can do about it.
Who gave this ability to the State of California? The voters did, in a general election resolution some years ago. They voted to put themselves at risk. [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img]

Without being alarmist, this type of thinking--that "someone" is threatening to destroy our country and our way of life--is one of the factors that helped lead to National Socialism (if you know what I mean).</font>

Oh, Charlie, I completely agree that it is reprehensible that this got to court at all. No evidence, just the word of a very suspect "under cover person." *sigh* I hate to admit that this type of thing still goes on here but it does. AND even though this case did take place in the south, this type of behavoir is not limited to the south. (Rodney King anyone?)

OMG are you serious? That's crazy! I've heard the stereotype that Americans are dumb. I don't usually like stereotypes (except for using in jokes :D ) but this really does enforce that! Sorry but how dumb is it to vote in something like that!

OMG are you serious? That's crazy! I've heard the stereotype that Americans are dumb. I don't usually like stereotypes (except for using in jokes :D ) but this really does enforce that! Sorry but how dumb is it to vote in something like that!</font>[/QUOTE]In the UK it's also illegal to allow your property to be used for 'immoral purposes' - drugs are covered by that ;) You are technically breaking the law if someone comes to your house and does drugs, if you are renting or have a lease you can lose your house, if you have a mortgage you can technically be in breach of the mortgage agreement ;) It's not just the US!

<font color = lightgreen>Oh, yes, I am very serious. And yes, it is crazy. Like Epona said, it also applies to leases, as well as your car, your boat, your truck, your motorcycle, etc. anywhere drugs are found your possession is subject to seizure.
Individually, Americans are not dumb. Put enough of them together, however.... [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img] Like I said, people will sign away their rights to win the War on Drugs.

Recently in Dallas County (last year, or perhaps the year before), there was the case of the informant who sold information about lots of drug deals which lead to many arrests and convictions...only to find out that in many cases the drugs the informant gave to police were mainly finely powderized sheet rock. [img]graemlins/doh.gif[/img] Many releases from jail soon followed, as well as a Federal investigation....</font>

There's the ironic thing Azred. Some of these poor people are still in jail 4 years on yet the world and his wife can see they're innocent. :(