Just the thought of another war is sickening me. I cannot believe that another is about to happen. The ludicrousness of mass human conflict is beyond reason.

We descend into madness by killing each other, our property and the planet. The oil fires during the Gulf war were a joke. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were horrifying to the extreme. The holocaust is disgustingly nightmarish. The Berlin wall was simply bizzarre, and would be funny but for the lives taken and ruined.

Make love not war.

I mean, what were Australian young men doing invading the beaches of Turkey in 1914? What lunacy pitted two nations almost on opposite sides of the globe against each other.

Australia INVADED Turkey. 'The Turk' was fighting for his wife and family. They were told we'd rape and pillage them. No wonder they fought so fiercely.

That was the last time Australians fought under British commanders.

Yorick brother, I'm with ya [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
When the militant, belligerant, bellicose fools of war come shoving their guns in our faces, we can say a lil' prayer for them and check out of this world knowing we didn't sink to their level... but hopefully it won't come to that.

<font color="#ffccff">And yet to sit idly by allowing evils to happen is just as ludicrous. People of conscience must undertake to put down tyranny and evil whenever encountered. Not to mention to be all broken up about a conflict in Iraq is kind of ...well whiney since there are armed and unarmed conflicts taking place all over the world already, bosnia, kosovo, all over africa, Ireland, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Iran, China, Korea, Philipines... etc...just because some of the violence is the government against it's own people should not exempt it from your errr from sickening you..... Just thought I'd brighten your day :D Happy New Year!

Edit: making love while you are being made war on is a sure way to make sure your progeny are murdered in their sleep.

Edit Again! Because I can't type.</font>

[ 01-02-2003, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

<font color="#ffccff">Out of curiosity...was the "rumor" true thet the Aussies were intent on murdering and raping the "turks" wives and children? And if not...is not the person/s responsible for spreading that rumor responsible in part for much of the blood shed? </font>

Yeah. Who to believe huh? Who to believe...

With the beginning of WW2 during the early 1930's many people of faith were confronted with the question of how to deal with the evil of Hitler. The reasons being postulated for war were crazy. Wasn't peace better than war? Can't we use reason and mature discussion to prevent conflict? The Munich Accord and its results apply ample answer. It was in just such a climate that Karl Barth attempted to define what correct action by a Christian in the face of evil should entail. His work led to a redefinition of "who is my neighbor" to include all people in the world. This helped provide the moral certitude necessary to help many to combat an evil that did not directly affect them.


This is also one of the basis for the "America as policeman to the World" idea. Now Americans feel it is their duty to prevent evil in the world. Yet doesn't it seem that we are selective in what evils we will "correct"? During the Gulf War, Sadaam Hussein could have been overthrown. The lesson he learned was to be more repressive to his own people, build a bigger army, and look at military alternatives such as chem/bio/nuclear. There was an evil present that led to, probably, more than a million Iraqi deaths but now that a nuclear, outward evil is projected, we act. As war looms we need to remember that our neighbor is the Palestinian as well as the Israeli, that we owe as much help to the Kurdish villager as much as the Saudi Prince.

If we want to claim the moral high ground; we need to remember that our neighbor includes innocents in all of the countries in the Middle East.

Points taken, but the realities are

1.Without WWI there would have been no Hitler.
2.Without Western intervention in the Russian civil war there would have been no cold war.
3.Without Nagasaki and Hiroshima there arguably would have been no nuclear arms race.

I've never accepted the line that to defeat a monster one must become a monster.

The Christians when persecuted, imprisoned and executed in Rome, did not rise up and defend themselves. They had an inner peace that was unbroken by a lion tearing them apart, or undimmed by Nero lighting them up as human torches.

Yet Christianity replaced Emperor worship as the Roman religion. Christianity "won" without a war. In actual fact, the persecution and executions were the greatest testimonies possible. Witnesses watching said "I want that" when viewing the inner peace.

Ghandi too, totally rejected violence and won. Achieving India's independence through nonviolent resistence.

Look, I argued for the Afgahni war. But I have problems with this one because of the premeditative nature of it. Premeditative invasions lead to Empires.

We can look at Rome and say, had the Gauls not sacked Rome (like Bin Laden "sacked" New York) the Roman Empire would not have arisen. Rome realised she was vulnerable, and changed policy. Invasion became commonplace.

What will America become?

I am leaning towards total pacifism, but struggle with it. I realise there are cases where it may prove an impossible benchmark for a flawed human to adhere to.

But surely we can all weep at the prospect of more human lives being needlessly destroyed, no matter who is to blame.

War is madness.

[ 01-03-2003, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

Indeed, war is terrible, worse than anything else that could befall a person, family, nation.

People are very intenting on getting a war...if one of their family (or their entire family) dies in combat then I guarantee you that they will regret the war having ever started.

Indeed, war is terrible, worse than anything else that could befall a person, family, nation.</font>[/QUOTE]Actually divorce is pretty bad. It is civil war within a family context.