What to do if you fall into a conversation with someone who doesn't
believe in retaliation against the terrorists :
1. Ask if military force is appropriate
2. When he says "No," ask, "Why not?"
3. Wait until he says something to the effect of..."Because that would
just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not
because more violence..."
4. When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.
5. When he gets back up to punch you, point out that it would be a
mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would be
awful and he shouldn't cause more violence.
6. Wait until he agrees, and has pledged not to commit additional
violence
7. Punch him in the face again. Harder this time
-Repeat steps 5 through 7 until he understands that sometimes retaliation
is necessary.

I have unfortunately encountered this logic before (rubs nose thoughtfully).

However I think it is quite frankly bollocks. I have had enough of this annoyingly flip response to the questioning of the death of thousands of people.

How exactly are you comparing pushing some annoying little **** off of you (something which will probably not be fatal) and killing 2000 people due to a minor link to a terrorist?

You can't see any difference?

Ask the families of the 2000 people in question, they might think differently.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Merlin_the_Arch-Wizard:
What to do if you fall into a conversation with someone who doesn't
believe in retaliation against the terrorists :
1. Ask if military force is appropriate
2. When he says "No," ask, "Why not?"
3. Wait until he says something to the effect of..."Because that would
just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not
because more violence..."
4. When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.
5. When he gets back up to punch you, point out that it would be a
mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would be
awful and he shouldn't cause more violence.
6. Wait until he agrees, and has pledged not to commit additional
violence
7. Punch him in the face again. Harder this time
-Repeat steps 5 through 7 until he understands that sometimes retaliation
is necessary.<hr></blockquote>

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't we already have this one, or something very similar.... They all blur together in my mind after a while... the degree of boring sameness is incredibly yawn making....

Nice try, dude. Not.

It's a joke. I don't like the bad US jokes, and you don't like this one, but let's not treat it like it's an actual idea. It's a joke.

[img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] LOL

Boy, it's heck when someone comes up with a metaphor that's hard to counter. ;) Hee, Hee!

In defense of the other side though. Like most metaphors, it's an overly simplified situation.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:
...killing 2000 people due to a minor link to a terrorist?
<hr></blockquote>

That minor link is their government, the Taliban, which allowed Osama Bin Laden to plan and train for the killing of 5,000 International citizens.

It's terrible that any innocents had to die in the US or Afghanistan. Terrible that the Taliban refused to give up Osama over a year ago when ordered to do so by the UN, and terrible the UN didn't take action to force his turn-over at that time. Terrible the world didn't cry for his arrest loudly enough after the bombing of the world trade center in '93, terrible they didn't cry out for it loudly enough after the bombing of two US embassies in Africa, and terrible they didn't cry out for it loudly enough after the bombing of the USS Cole. Terrible the world would let him hide in the midst of the innocents ruled and abused by the Taliban, whose love for Osama was based on his lavish gifts of money to their elite. Terrible that money wasn't used to feed the 2.5 million refuges in Afghanistan prior to September 11th, and terrible Osama's idea of freeing the holy land doesn't include the health and welfare of those people he proposes to lead.

Terrible really does sum up this situation. Negotiation and diplomatic pressure isn't always very effect. I know, we didn't do enough. :(

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:


That minor link is their government, the Taliban, which allowed Osama Bin Laden to plan and train for the killing of 5,000 International citizens.

Terrible that any innocents had to die in the US or Afghanistan. Terrible that the Taliban refused to give up Osama over a year ago when ordered to do so by the UN, and terrible the UN didn't take action to force his turn-over then, terrible the world didn't cry for his arrest loud enough after the bombing of the world trade center in 93, terrible they didn't cry out for it after the bombing of two US embassies in Africa, terrible they didn't cry out for it after the bombing of the USS Cole, terrible the world would let him hide in the midst of the innocents ruled and abused by the Taliban, whose love for Osama was based on his lavish gifts of money to their elite. Terrible that money wasn't used to feed the 2.5 million refuges in Afghanistan prior to September 11th, and terrible Osama's idea of freeing the holy land doesn't include feeding those people he proposes to lead.

Terrible really does sum up this situation. Negotiation and diplomatic pressure isn't always very effect. I know, we didn't do enough. :( <hr></blockquote>

Actually, many Afghanis seem quite happy at the recent turn of events. Freedom has a savory sweet taste! The rebels are overthrowing the Redcoats, err., I mean Taliban and freedom is being earned through blood. Does this story sound familiar?

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:


Actually, many Afghanis seem quite happy at the recent turn of events. Freedom has a savory sweet taste! The rebels are overthrowing the Redcoats, err., I mean Taliban and freedom is being earned through blood. Does this story sound familiar?<hr></blockquote>


Hmmm...strangely...YES! [img]smile.gif[/img]

BTW...Yes, we did this 'joke' before. And the shortened version that Merlin_the_Arch-Wizard posted really fails to make its point. I have a longer version that does make the point and does it much more eloquently. This version is just a joke designed to offend.

Of course...those on the recieving end of the joke always seem to miss the underlying message and just be offended. :(

Violence at the expense of others is only funny in cartoons. I guess its easier to make crude jokes than to try to see the moral and intellectual points made by those who are against military reprisal.
Not to mention the rich traditions and beliefs of many around the world who favor non-violence.

I used to be against this forum being terminated, but seeing as how some people just dont learn or heed warnings, I dunno...

Nachtrafe, check your pm's.