So we can't use the "F" word, but....

We can bash gays by calling them "abominations by God" or mentally ill or other insults.

It seems we can also freely accuse forum members of being terrorist supporters, implying they take some pleasure in the deaths by suicide bombing, ect. Never offering some sort of proof, even an inkling, to back it up. Plainly this flamebaiting at best and just a baseless insult at worst.
This behavior has been occuring for a few months now and has never been noted or corrected by anyone in authority.

What gives?

Ziroc, do you agree to this kind of B.S. going down around here?

Moderaters are you just not noticing or not being told of this kind of crapulence?

Is anyone else concerned?

[ 06-18-2004, 04:49 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

I don't think this is the way to go about it though. Email the moderators.
Besides, I've learned long ago that the best approach is to go away and ignore what you don't like, rather than pig-headedly trying to bring about changes. I've seen this forum glide down the drain in the last couple of YEARS, I've seen people I really really like and respect get more and more arrogant and intolerant in their debating techniques, and I've never seen anyone be able to really do something about it. Everyone can be a member here, including people with extremist viewpoints. If you can't deal with that, which I can understand fully, it's better to take a break. No matter how frustrating it may be.

Oh and sorry, I am a nitpicker at heart: it's "coming to", not "too". Coming too is erm, more like the sort of thing your boyfriend'd say last night. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[ 06-18-2004, 04:48 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

Yeah, I have voluntarily and involuntarily 'gone way' in recent times. Still, certain behavior shouldnt be allowed on a well moderated forum like this. One has just gotta read the rules to come to this decision.

Only a clear public statement on these issue will bring me peace of mind so a public post is the way to handle it, IMO.

Plus I want the thoughts and feelings of other forum members who may be or may not be concerned about the seemingly abusive and insulting behavior.

edit- too or to- my dyslexia strike again! Duly noted and edited! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-18-2004, 04:50 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

I know what you mean mate, I'm just too much of a pessimistic cynical defeatist to be willing to try and change things this way. ;)

[ 06-18-2004, 04:50 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

<font color=deepskyblue>Well, <font color=orange>Chewbacca</font>, this is exactly the kind of behavior I was referring to when we clashed shortly after my return.

There is a lot of namecalling going on from both sides and precious little respect for opposing viewpoints (again, from both sides).

I agree with <font color=yellow>Melusine</font> that this forum has been "gliding down the drain" for the last couple of years. When I first joined IW (about 2.5 years ago), there were many members here that could discuss opposing viewpoints or theologies without resorting to insults. In fact, I gained part of my reputation on the forum when I entered a thread on <font color=red>Satanism</font>. Despite being a Born-Again Southern Baptist, I was able to discuss the issue calmly with other members and learned a lot about Satanism that I didn't know before (such as the fact that the large majority of "Satanists" do NOT actually worship Satan - in fact, most don't even believe he exists).

My demeanor in that thread even lead to me being dubbed <font color=red>Cerek the Calmth</font> by <font color=yellow>Melusine</font>. I always planned to actually add that title to my sig.

But I've become just as guilty as other members of being reactionary in some of posts rather than focusing on the issue. That was part of the reason that I also just had to leave the forum for a couple of months. Since my return, I have honostly tried to get back to my original style of posting - and that is by showing respect to BOTH sides of the issue. But it is hard to do when that respect is not returned.

As <font color=yellow>Melusine</font> mentioned, I've even seen veteran members that used to be highly respectful of others become more and more insulting (both openly and subtly) in their posts. Again, I include myself on that list.

I wish there WAS something the Moderators could do, but they can't act as a cyper-S.W.A.T. team and monitor every single post in every single thread in C.E.

The bottom line is that the forum won't change until the MEMBERS change the way they talk to one another. Emotions have started running very high since the rumors (and later the reality) of War in Iraq started. And people have started letting their emotions get the best of them.

The only solution I see is for each member to make a commitment to NOT insult other members, no matter how strongly they feel about an issue, and to also not retaliate to insults (real or imagined) thrown at them by other members. If one or two members continue to be insulting or flamebaiting, but nobody ever takes the bait, they will eventually either leave on their own or become more blantant in their actions - in which case the Moderators will "invite" them to leave.

I will take the first step and make a pledge to ALL the members I have disagreed with to be more respectful in my posts to them (although I may still have to include my Obligatory Disagreement Disclaimer in any post I make to <font color=orange>Davros</font>. LOL [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] Just kidding. I actually didn't realize I was saying that in every post I made to him. Just goes to show that we are ALL guilty of indescretions from time to time.

Well, all I can control are my own actions. I will make a commitment to do that. If each of us makes that same commitment, the problem should go away on it's own.</font>

I doubt I dubbed you that Cerek, considering the fact that I'm so anal about spelling and grammar. :D It's possible though I dubbed you Cerek the Calm. ;)
However as you yourself say, since that time you've reached a point where you should be included on the list yourself (and yes it's easy to point fingers when you've been avoiding the forum altogether yourself ;) , but the reason I chose to do so is because I did not want to see myself slide off the sloping scale.)
Personally I've grown so immensely saddened and disappointed with the posting here that I don't think I'll want to post here again (yeah yeah I know, it's not like that's a big loss or anything :D - just saying, I noticed what's been going on). I don't think we should over-glorify "the old days" - I've been here over four years and there has not been a completely lovey-huggy-hippy period EVER in that time. But I do think that the more people join the forums, the more chance there is that some of them will clash, and that cannot be helped. More people joining ALSO means more people to potentially get along with. [img]smile.gif[/img]
But apart from the fact that the forum has grown I think many of us have changed a great deal in their posting styles, and the tension on this forum I personally find to be bordering on hatefulness. And I've adminned a forum focussing on debate much more than this one, and which then had a reputation of allowing much harsher and ruthless debating than on IWs, so it's not like I'm not used to anything.

[ 06-18-2004, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

The main problem in this forum is that everyone here thinks everyone else is the problem. We are all offensive from time to time, and some more than others, but of course, we are more understanding of our own indiscretions than the indiscretions of others. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-18-2004, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

Well in my case, everyone else is the problem since I haven't even been posting here and still the atmosphere sucks. ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img] :D

From my perspective, the rules in this little corner of IW are slightly different to the rest of the place. We expect a certain "robustness" of thought and expression and to some extent, the old saying about heat and kitchens comes into play ;)

However, along with the above, and the extra licence afforded to the participants here, we expect a fair degree of restraint, self control and even self-censorship.

Hopefully, those who participate here can keep things civil, within the slightly looser application of our general standards of conduct, but rest assured, those who continually flout the rules will be noted and dealt with.

The bottom line is you have been given this area to express considered opinions on serious topics and to learn from other's experiences and attitudes. If the majority cannot use this opportunity responsibly, then this forum will be removed.

The ball is in your court.

[ 06-18-2004, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Mouse ]

[img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

I've been in and out(mostly out) over the past six months, but when I poke my head in, it seems about the same to me.