Now, I'm more than a little curious, how long has the institution been subverted?

We have solid proof of active subversion as early as 1970, with Nixon's white house actively gathering intelligence and laying down plans (and executing those plans) for sabatoge, espionage and the overall CIA-type Black Operations, known more commonly by the colloquialisms of 'mindfuck' and 'ratfucking.' Including all the things Kennedy did to Nixon to beat him in 1960, stuffing ballot boxes, propaganda, unfavorable press (the Canuck Letter, which ruined Muskie, written by Clawson) and other dirty little tricks. I wonder, if Lepke had come forward with the proof he had about Franklin Roosevelt, would FDR have lost the election? Most certainly. Before he became president of the US, FDR was governer of NY, and his family and his friends were together part of one of the biggest corruption and racketeering rings in NY history. He was Boss Tweed with a legit job. Lepke had solid proof of his racketeering connections, and the kickbacks he took to keep his mouth shut and to make sure certain individuals (Lepke himself, for example) didn't get any trouble as they did their dastardly deeds. It could have sent FDR to Sing-Sing...

In short, the process was always dirty, but deliberately subverted by those in power? That's a fairly new phenomena, and ever since FDR got elected, its authenticity and viability among political hucksters was solidified... The trick of course, was getting certain individuals in the right place, at the right time, and Nixon's CRP machine was masterful at it. They ran it like a CIA intelligence operation, muscled up with a psy-war. It was wartime intelligence tactics against a legitimate, legal process, against the workings of our nation. The action is incredible, unbelievable, but it's happened. Is it still happening? Of course it is, to politicians, getting elected is all that matters. Why ignore a powerful weapon on hand to get elected, illegal and unethical, or not? Your enemy is already doing it to you, so there's no defensible reason their minds, after all, you're merely 'balancing the playing field.'

It's a shocking thing to consider, striking in what it could and does mean, but it must be argued, and here, we can discuss it with civility and hammer out the basic points, what to do, where to do it, and when.

EDIT: Wasn't sure on Muskie's first name, so removed it...

[ 04-20-2004, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Oblivion437 ]

Dude, read up on the 1876 election. (Hayes-Tilden) There's been dirty tricks as long as there have been elections.

The only recommendation I can give is for average citizens to try to get involved into the political and democratic processes and get an insight on how they work. Abuse of power always happens sooner or later, and will continue to flourish as long as most of us remain clueless about what our politicians do.

[ 04-18-2004, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]

I know about the dirty tricks (they go back further than the days of Tammany Hall) and all that. But an active campaign to completely destroy a group insurging power against the established party? That's fairly new.

If more than 50% of the population voted, things would be much better. It would certainly have fat-cats shitting their pants.

Normaly we agree on a lot of things Oblivion437, but look arround at they people you see everyday in the streets do you really want 50% of them voting? ;)

Amen.

Well imagine it John, while Americans, like all groups of people, aren't too bright on average, only 18 million or so voted in the last election, if over 100 million voted, that would be something. You can fool 1 idiot. You can fool 100. You can even fool 18 million? But can you fool 100 million? The social neurons will connect at some point.