This a hot topic of conversation now days. Can pro-life organizations and representatives have both Stem cell research and anti-abortion arguements in their agendas? Will the Bush administrations faith based values be altered to acomidate scientific demands?
I know that this is a tough subject to talk about. You will never be thought of as wrong when you post in this forum. It is your opinion and valued with me and most all others.
I agree with the research. Protocall must be a priority here thow. I feel that millions of living people will benefit in the end. Thousands of people walking this planet now are the direct results of advanced reproductive technology. I am a firm beleiver of natural means. But life finds a way to adapt to its surroundings.
I think that the Bush administration will,in the end, give a thumbs up here. The soul of a Human is real and I believe in less suffering to those that are alive. I would have resentments in DNA codeing and profiling but if someone wanted to do this it wouldn't be hard. The records of many are just a click away..? How do you feel?

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http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...les/portal.jpg Conan ~*~

Yes

The taking of one human life for the betterment of another?

I don't think so.

I am wrestling with this one. I think that the only way I would support it is if it was limited to the cells of embryos that were left over from in-vitro fertilization that would be thrown out anyway. Tough issue, but if there was a way to cure things like MS I think we should check it out.



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Gaelic

Simple question, complex answer...

Stem cell therapies are far too useful to be ignored, so we should continue intensive research. Since the most useful stem cells are from embryonic or foetal sources, we're presented with a poser.
What about cloning? If we were able to clone the stem cells from an embryonic source and grow them in vitro, we would have a renewable source of stem cells for research and/or therapeutic uses, without the messy moral arguments. Of course, we would have to overcome the objections to human cloning research...
IMHO, the religious arguments being bandied about in this debate have no place in the formulation of federal health policies.


[This message has been edited by Absynthe (edited 07-20-2001).]

Do you not understand this issue? This is not about taking one life for the betterment of another. The issue will not be about the use of stem cells from aborted embyros. This will not be allowed, so it should not be discussed. Researchers have been able to produce embryros strictly for research purposes and like Gaelic said, from left over invitro fertilization.

Ultimately millions of lives could be saved through this research and it should be continued!



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http://www.bestanimations.com/fantas.../dragon-04.gif
Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time

Sorry Absynthe, but here I'm going to disagree and quite wholeheartedly. The idea of creating life to destroy it....makes me violently ill. I know that nobody is talking 'farming embryos/fetuses' yet but how long til they do? How far IS too far? Each step further toward and yes, over, the line encourages another and another...no, I think this may be the Rubicon and I'm loathe to see our health industry cross it. Messy moral issues? Hmmmm yes, why so messy? Because they touch something deep inside a lot of us. This one got to me. I am not a 'political' person and friends often have to remind me to vote or explain the latest debacle in Washington, but this topic made me sit up and listen.

I am a wee bit disappointed by your last comment! I know people have debated about whether or not political leaders should be 'religious' in public. Well, I'm here to say that my faith is a part of ME, I don't lop it off to post here or go to vote! It may not be the driving force in every decision, but it shapes my very nature. To me, it's as much a part of my life as the fact that I'm short or female or have hazel eyes. None of those things is the only think that determines how I vote for a senator and yet they are part of who I am and my overall life experience. My faith shapes my views and my perceptions to some extent. Of course it is with me when I look at "messy moral issues"! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

I think ordinary greed and politics will prevail in most cases. Our system seems to thrive on the behind the scenes power hierarchy. If the people with moral values approaching my own should be heard for once, well, I'm not going to complain. For so long I've sat back and watched as anyone Christian is condemned and ridiculed for the mere fact of announcing that they ARE Christian. Seems it's unfashionable these days. Maybe the fringe element and lunatics brandishing crosses and shooting doctors have been too visible. Maybe they've tarnished the concept for the rest of us? All I know is, I don't think I'm an evil zealot out to run the government by all my private religious standards. Yet on this one issue, I definitely have an opinion. http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif


Ok, sorry for the very long rant....not my style usually, must be full moon is coming? LOL I have it out of my system so no more is forthcoming.

And I know we will end up agreeing to disagree, but I had to voice my opinion. http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

Cloudy

PS: Moridin, how do they produce those embryos? There are some people who believe that is LIFE, whether you like it or not. http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif And it is a very strongly felt issue one way or the other. The whole thing really makes me wonder just what we will eventually end up with. The old "should we do it just because we CAN do it? " line comes to mind. sigh

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."




[This message has been edited by Cloudbringer (edited 07-21-2001).]

Cloudy, dear one, my apologies!
The line about fundies was unneccesary; I retract it and apologize. I most certainly didn't mean YOU, and I sure as hell shouldn't generalize anyway.Actually, if I can figure out how, I'm going to edit that out...

To clarify my point about cloning, I don't mean to clone an entire foetus just to harvest the stem cells. Rather, I'm in favor of cloning the stem cells only, no living being involved, except as a donor, and that can be done as mentioned earlier from in vitro techniques.
I would say that creating a type of cell that is incapable of reproducing itself is not creating life to destroy it, but I'm open to other interpretations. It may be a technical point, but the stem cells used in therapy are not destroyed by the recipient, they actually become part of the recipients system.

I am going to use quotes from a news source to back up my arguments about the use of stem cells for research.

It is a very long stretch to call these embryos a 'life'. If this were the case then why do we not see anti-abortion protesters outside fertility clinics? These embryos are being discarded, so why should they not be put to use as a potentially life saving cure for millions of people?

Again it is hard to stretch this into a moral issue of a human life. Like the above statement says, these Republicans are all anti-abortion, but still see the significance of this research.

Why is there the willingness to defend an embryo (something that could perhaps with a lot of imagination, be defined as a 'life') at the cost of a true human life.

Without medical research how many of us would be alive? Penicillen, organ transplants, prescription drugs, etc...are the results of research. Sometimes this research is contradictory to one's beliefs, but would you still have the same objections if it was your life being saved by this stem cell research?


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http://www.bestanimations.com/fantas.../dragon-04.gif
Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time

i see nothing wrong with this, as there is no such thing as a soul, an embryo cannot to my knowledge said to be alive on anything more than a celluler basis. so Cloneing is nothing wrong in itself for reasearch purposes, rather it is misuses of it that are wrong. But there is usually a knee-jerk "no" reaction

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