Hey all!

Ive searched the forum for specific answers to this question, but didn't find something helpfull, so I'd like to hear some comments about:

1) Ninja. No Faerie. I'm gonna make him throw stuff, and cast heavily, and max DEX and SPD first, then probably SEN... dunno what else. I've thought about human or hobbit, where it seems like the hobbit can max DEX and SPD faster, but the human has some more PIE. How important is PIE for spell points, is it worth the delay? Or maybe you can recommend something else?

2)Samurai. Dual wield swords, max DEX and SPD first, then STR and probably SEN. Also cast a lot. Had a human for some time, but maybe there's something better?

3) Bard and Gadgeteer. I had hobbits, one male and one female up to now. Seems fine for me, but maybe someone has another idea or suggestion?

Thanks for any comments [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cheers
Philipp

Hobbits are pretty good Ninjas. To be honest, since Ninjas have basic requirements in all but one of the Attributes it boils down entirely to PIE scores and bonus points at creation. PIE isn't that important in my experience. That leaves Hobbits as the top choice.

Felpurrs are a good choice for Samurais and their high SPD should help your build.

I like Mooks as Gadgeteers. Don't really know why - they're not the best class out there but they're OK. Maybe also try a Gnome. They don't seem to get used much in the Wizardry games, probably because Hobbits seem to be better as non-spellcasters and Faeries and Elves are better spellcasters.

xfactor

The few times I had a ninja in the party, they were human, except for the faerie ninja I had once for the Cane. But ninjas are difficult to develop properly, and I was never happy with any of them.

Kitties are good for the Samurai class.

Bards, which I didn't use often, were human, usually female. My gadgeteers were hobbits.

All my Mooks were either rangers or psionics.

<center>Nightowl2</center>

Ninja (or monk): Mine are usually human, since they have good stats

Samurai: Usually Hobbit, unless i'm playing a heavy melee party; in this case Mook for the giant sword (short + extended weapons, no ranged weapons, spells for range)

My bards are usually femal humans called Lorelei. Don't know why.

I rarely use gadgeteers.

since ninjas can hardly wear anything you almost might as well make them fairies.

However I always liked the ring of beasts, so felpur or rawulf is a good choice IMO.

Also you can get a lot of extra stats by importing a class / race combo that gets a huge - stat penalty, since if you import it you don't get -stats for several levels. A lizardman monk is a good example.

For gagateer and bard I would also make them felpur or rawulf for the ring of beasts.

Just for the record, I kept the hobbits for Bard and Gadgeteer, they are just perfect (the low PIE doesn't bother with these two).

As for Samurai and Ninja, I went with humans for both, I was out for some PIE, because both should cast a lot... Thanks for all your input [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cheers
Philipp

Ninja, non-Faerie, heavy caster, DEX, SPD, SEN. For just those 3 attributes:

Ninja DEX/SPD/SEN:
Race Eff LvlMax
Hobbit 190 20
Felpurr 185 21
Mook 185 21
Human 180 21
Gnome 175 22
Faerie 170 23
Dracon 165 24
Elf 165 24
Rawulf 160 25
Lizard 155 26
Dwarf 145 27

So Human's not bad, but Hobbit is best, will Felpurr & Mook tied a tad behind. If you want a heavy caster, INT is a good idea for Powercast, but it turns out adding that to the mix only improves Faerie's standing slightly (who you've already ruled out). For this character, you might consider starting life as an Alchemist for several levels to build up casting ability, and then switch to Ninja later.

Samurai. Dual wield swords, max DEX and SPD first, then STR and probably SEN. Also cast a lot.

Samurai STR/DEX/SPD/SEN:
Race Eff LvlMax
Hobbit 235 29
Felpurr 230 30
Mook 230 30
Human 225 31
Faerie 220 31
Gnome 220 31
Dracon 215 32
Elf 210 33
Lizard 210 33
Rawulf 205 34
Dwarf 195 36

Yet again, Hobbit best, Felpurr & Mook a tad behind, and Human OK in 4th. In this case, I definitely wouldn't touch INT, and simply rely on lots of practice casting to improve magic skills.

Bard & Gadgeteer: As always, depends which attributes you plan to focus on, and there's LOTS of ways of building Bards & Gadgeteers. Heavy or light instrument/gadget usage, melee or ranged focus, quick & low stamina vs slow & high stamina (or attempt to balance) are all options that different races will be better or worse at. But just to pick an example:

Melee, high-stamina, moderate speed Bard (STR, DEX, then VIT, SPD):
Bard STR/DEX/VIT/SPD:
Race Eff LvlMax
Hobbit 235 29
Felpurr 230 30
Lizard 230 30
Mook 230 30
Dracon 225 31
Human 225 31
Gnome 220 31
Faerie 215 32
Elf 210 33
Dwarf 205 34
Rawulf 205 34

Hobbit in first again, with Felpurr, Mook, and Lizardman in a 3-way tie for 2nd. Note that the Lizardman Bard actually starts as an apprentice! This is a good example of how number of bonus points can really mislead you and you need to look further.

Effectiveness (Eff) is simply how many points the 1st level character has in the attributes you care about, plus the number of bonus points they have available to spend in them. It's a very good measure of how good a race is at a specific build of a character, but you have to be very specific about the attributes you care & don't care about to compute it. Level to Max (LvlMax) is the level at which that character would max all of those attributes if at every single level, including initial character creation, you put points into only those attributes and no others.

Hobbits turn out to be good quite often because they have the 2nd highest starting racial points (310, only Humans have 315, all other races are 300 or 305) and the place where they are worst, Piety (30), is not usually an attribute you care about.

Have fun whatever you decide!

Hope you'll excuse the double-post... the first was long enough and I missed a couple of intervening posts while writing it.

I like the Ring of Beasts too, but generally find that there's something else I'd always rather be using. SEN is nice but not critical to any of the classes you've listed. Now for a Ranger or an Omnigun Gadgeteer, that would definitely be a consideration.

As for the PIE & spellpoints issue, since we're talking items, keep in mind that once you make it to Ferro the Infinity Helm will pretty much take care of mana needs for the Samurai, removing what little relevance PIE may have had previously. That doesn't help the Ninja (and neither do the Robes of Rejuvenation). It does turn out that if you plug in a minimum PIE of 45 along with SPD, DEX, and SEN for the Ninja chart that, not surprisingly, Humans become the best.

But basically once you decide that even for attributes you are not focusing on, you insist on certain minimum values (usually 45-50), Humans automatically become the best race for every single class since they start with 45 in everything and have the highest overall attribute total.

If you start a Hobbit as Alchemist she can change to Ninja @ next level (if you distro atts for it), and gets:
Noticably higher possible starting Dex.
Two spells right away (important for groups with fewer casters).
If you stay L1 til you get to Burz, you can even mix up your Alchemy skill before losing a chance to for the next four levels (and the free potions you make while sleepmining Burz' inventory).
BUT enter the game as a Ninja so you have the suit; recycle to Alchemist. And if she won't be your L&T person, whoever is can while away the time not sleeping--inspecting the chest to build L&T.