Hi all,

I dont put any points in locks and traps for two reasons. Mostly I will find crap in the chests anyway and later I can open it with kk/dt and the strange hat from monastery anyway. even more I sometimes use partys without a lockpicker, that is all not a problem EXCEPT The Retro Dungeons (esp the first at the graveyard). There is a 12 tumbler lock.
If I go in there early I cannot open it, if I go in there later the loot I will find isnt really valuble anymore. Any suggestions ?

Some chests are worth it, and the rogue is one of the best fighters. You say the loot isn't worth it later, because by the time you have developed the skill you are much further in the game. True. I didn't like rogues at first because they didn't do magic. Changed my mind. Yes, you can do without, but it always makes the game easier to get booty. They put you one step ahead of a non-rouge party. And even if the stuff is not great, you can sell it.

One suggestion is to build someone up as a rogue until you feel they are good at locks, maybe at 60. So the knock knock and divine traps makes them powerful. Then switch classes to something you like better. And you gain stealth along the way. A good trade-off. My 2 cents.

i'm a big fan of both bards and rogues, so i've never played a party without l&t skill.

however, it's my understanding that, with knock knock, the effect is cumulative. so, if you have lockpicks, just have each character use one. then hopefully you'll have very few tumblers to mess with for the guy with the hat. it's similar if you have more than one person to cast the k-k spell.

also, there's a thieves buckler shield that has an additional +10 to l&t skill. that would give your hat wearer 20 - not great, but better.

With a rogue at nearly every level up I put three points in locks and traps and three in one of the two : close combat, dual weapons, dagger. I use dual poison daggers with him, and i don't find, that putting points into locks traps upsets his development too much, for the fighting skills develop through use, adn the l&t does'nt do that too much. If his close combat skills get maxed, then I might build up ranged and then sling. And with a rogue I also nearly always max dexterity for reflextion and speed for snake speed, and in my current party my rogue has more kills even than my fighter.

Well, I'll put my two cents into the debate. I usually play with a party of three or four, and I never play without a Rougue or a Bard. They are possibly the most powerful character types in the game. Having lock and PP skills early in the game is invaluable. Obviously, they are not combat skills, but the 'loot' you can secure early in the game will give you an edge in the types of weapons, armor, and 'special' items available.

Maybe there is a chance to open locks if you use the Knock-Knock scrolls ( they're Lvl 4) with two or more characters ( not 2 scrolls from the same RPC )?
In my parties my mage and my gadgeteer always both tried knock-knock on a difficult door so each one had a chance to lift tumblers.
Of course you need the artifact skill for using scrolls.

does anyone remember an old episode of third rock from the sun where john lithgow is searching for a replacement for himself? suddenly, he finds someone and says, "you look just like me... you're gorgeous!"

so, halsey, let me just say: you're style is just like mine - you're a genius!