hey.
i am creating a cleric for a new party, and i want to make him as good as possible, (powergame=me). I was wondering if i created him as a human monk then changed classess to a cleric of bane. would this be a good idea or would it be better to start him as a cleric, then change him ot a monk later. The reason of the addition of a monk class, would be to allow for the wis AC modifier, and i know that the dreadmaster of bane gets a +2 to wis later in the game.
so basically i want a good cleric, with a low AC, so he can fight if need be.
thanks.
Tim

[^Just wanted to mention there is a slight spoiler in the post above (+2 WIS bonus)]

Please note you only get the AC wisdom modifier from monk if you aren't wearing any armor. So, having a level of monk added to a cleric only to get the wis AC modifier is not so good an idea as it might be much easier for the cleric to get better AC by wearing a good armor.

I agree not only do you give up armor but you give up those nice shields too and my number one rule for creating spellcasters is:

NEVER MC you main spellcasters since every single level you take in another class takes away from your highest level spells.

The ONLY exception to this might be if you are playing HOF and then you could consider adding a second class after level 20ish as spells get pretty few and far between then.

As for clerics think two or three times before choosing an evil cleric as well because spontaneous casting of healing spells rocks while spontaneous casting of harm pretty much sux... ;)

Think hard before choosing an ECL race as well becuase each level you lose is more high level spells you miss out on.

If you want a melee cleric consider Tempus especially if you don't have an axe weilder picked out yet but most any cleric can tank pretty well when buffed up if you build them well.

Persoanlly I like the Lorekeeper - decent domain spells and free ID once a day (even if you don't choose the ID domain spell.

Welcome to the forums! Good arguments mate, but don't you feel the benefit of ECL (stat bonuses) outweigh possible Higher Level spells?

ok thanks guys, i think i need a cleric for my party, im not a complete n00b, but i'm not really fantastic at this game, so do oyu think i could multiclass this char? because a pure class cleric is too booring for me, what could i do to make her better?

Once I started MC'ing and ECL'ing my casters, I've never gone back to vanilla mages and clerics, except for drow sorcerers (nothing to safely MC them to). Some ECL races, such as the duergar, don't have much of a benefit. However, aasimars, drow, and deep gnomes are amazing.
I enjoy the challenge in the early game of being a bit behind, and in the endgame I'm always an unstoppable force.

Timmy, I have only ever used the deep gnome monk/cleric as a secondary healer, but it could be made to be the primary healer. Take only one level of monk, and be sure to maximize DEX and WIS. You'll be about four levels behind, but if you can handle babysitting your priest for a bit in the beginning, then you will be rewarded with a very high AC mini-tank healer later on.

Consider having other healers in the party, such as a druid or even a bard.

I think some ECL races can indeed offer enough perks to make the loss of levels worthwhile which is why I said to study carefully before you choose.

I played a drow sorceress in the first party I completed the game with and as I recall she only reached level 14 or maybe 15 while a non-ecl would have reached 17 - losing those levels meant she never even got a level 8 spell - yes she performed well but a spellcaster is all about spells and a non ecl might have performed adequately and still got the higher spell levels.

As for the deep gnome monk/cleric suggestion thats insane. A nice novelty class but heres what you give up.

Non ecl single class cleric spells at level 17:(without bonus spells for wis added)

5/5/5/5/4/4/3/2/1

deep gnome monk 1/cleric 13 (3ECL)
5/5/4/4/3/2/1

(plus 1 additional 3rd level and 1 additional 7th level spell over the bonus spells of the non-ecl for the extra +2 wis)

Not to mention the +4 addition the non-ecl gets to any spell damage or DC based on cleric level.

Not to mention that if you max dex and wis in a deep gnome you nerf everything else.

While MCs sound "kewl" compared to single class and can indeed be great secondary characters the loss of high level spells for your main caster is too high a price to pay unless you are doing so for some "theme" or other RP reasons. Leave your main casters single class and let them do what they do best - cast the most and highest level spells they possibly can.

Not to mention other non-spell related stuff. You'll have less HP, BAB, etc...

Not to mention other non-spell related stuff. You'll have less HP, BAB, etc... </font>[/QUOTE]Note that I didn't recomend the MC deep gnome cleric/monk as a primary healer. The monk/cleric is part of a larger, more complex build shooting for an ultimate AC that also involves conjurer levels. Basically, the monk level(s) provide a WIS bonus, the conjurer levels allow for shield, mirror image, and other mage buffs, and the priest levels provide more WIS and buffs. The deep gnome race also comes with a healthy +4 generic AC bonus.

Spoiler alert!
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With a natural 14 AC from being a deep gnome, the above specimen gets +5 AC from a 20 DEX, +5 AC from a 20 WIS, +1 AC from two potions found in vanilla and HoF mode, +2 AC from the banite quest in both modes, +7 AC from shield, a nice +DEX from Tenser's Transformation, +2 AC from the slippers, +4 generic AC from a nice set of bracers, and natural mirror image, blur, and invisibility. Combine that with the deep gnome racial magic resistance and a few buffs, and you will have an untouchable little squirt who can run into a swarm of foes and serve as a focal point for your caster's AoE spells, shrugging off both the affects of them and the attacks from the enemies.

[ 02-06-2006, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: Marty4 ]

Indeed a decoy is the only thing I have ever found a monk good for myself - ;)