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-   -   Which of these should be my main Mage? (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24150)

krunchyfrogg 01-01-2006 02:31 PM

1) Elf Fighter/Mage/Thief
2) Elf Mage/Thief
3) Gnome Illusionist/Thief
4) Human Thief/Mage (dual after level 7 - 10)

I know none of these options produce the "optimum" Mage (which would be single-classed from the start), but I don't want a character like that in this game. I won't find scrolls fast enough, and I'd rather take care of my Thief and Mage slot with one character, allowing me to add an extra tank. BTW, I have a Bard in the party acting as a backup Mage.

Sir Degrader 01-01-2006 03:04 PM

Well, no 4 is out IMO, for the first few levels you won't have a decent melee class, I think No 2. is good, but the best IMO is an Elf F/M. Just my $.02

Kyrvias 01-01-2006 05:17 PM

I agree. An elven Fighter/Mage would be your best bet.

Aerich 01-01-2006 06:59 PM

But if he wants to take care of the thief and mage class in one character, a F/M isn't an option, although it is a powerful character.

Out of the 4 listed above, I'd say #2 or #3 is the better option for a relatively inexperienced player. #4 is the best option for an experienced player who doesn't mind going without a "proper" mage until after Dragon's Eye and is going to do HoW and TotL. #1 is a bad option for a main mage because it levels so slowly, except on HoF mode.

If you are playing on Core (normal) difficulty level with a 6-character party, a single class mage finds scrolls fast enough in IWD/HoW. It's not like IWD2.

Kyrvias 01-01-2006 09:56 PM

If that's the case, Aerich, my vote would have to go to a mage thief.

Good Hunting!

krunchyfrogg 01-02-2006 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aerich:
But if he wants to take care of the thief and mage class in one character, a F/M isn't an option, although it is a powerful character.
Thanks for pointing this out. ;)
Quote:

Originally posted by Kyrvias:
If that's the case, Aerich, my vote would have to go to a mage thief.
They're all mage thieves!!! ;)

Aerich 01-02-2006 04:14 PM

I believe he was referring to the multiclass elf, option 2. ;) The I/T will make a better bomber if you are willing to give up necromantic spells (with Skull Trap being the best necro spell) - extra spells at levels 1-4 come in quite handy.

While a mage/thief offers a lot of potential for trickery, I've always preferred to separate the classes if I'm going for power over roleplay. A M/T has low hp, is nearly worthless in melee, if it is a gnome I/T it cannot use the gnome/halfling-only helm, it cannot use longbows, and is often vulnerable if used as a scout/decoy (and therefore targeted). It's better to use it strictly as a mage with better shooting ability. If you are scouting for traps, be prepared to run like a rabbit, and make sure the M/T is wearing a ring of Free Action (in case you run into a spellcaster). Don't use it to sneak attack or backstab on a regular basis. When going into melee with this character, which should only be in cases of extreme need and/or ambush, Mirror Image is necessary. Also keep a MI handy when scouting, as you could be in big trouble if you come unstealthed.

In sum, a M/T is a good support/mage character, but should be kept out of melee combat just like a mage. It is difficult to balance the scouting role (particularly if scouting for traps and therefore still visible) with the need to avoid being the enemy's target.

krunchyfrogg 01-02-2006 08:24 PM

I have my reasons for combining the two roles into one character:

I'm really not impressed with either type of character!

Single-classed Mages will have their higher level spell slots open because I can't find scrolls fast enough in this game. Thieves just stink IMO. I don't scout, I don't backstab. Once I gain Evasion, I've got all the skills I'll ever need, and consider it a waste when I gain another level in the Thief class.

Writing that paragraph makes me realize that I think the dual-class option is probably best for me. I would still be able to get to a very high level as a Mage, and I would max out hit points from the 1d6 Thief hit die. Heck, I could probably dualclass a few levels earlier (whenever Evasion is gained) and still be good enough at thieving.

I made it through Throne of Bhaal with Imoen as my only Thief, and it's a waste putting more levels into Thief than I need to.

Aerich 01-03-2006 03:13 AM

How far have you gotten in the game and what level are you playing at with how many characters?

There should be plenty of spells of your level once you get to Kuldahar. Orrick's inventory changes after each Chapter, so you can buy third and fourth level spells from him after you've been to Dragon's Eye once. There are all kinds of spells on tables in the Severed Hand, which should hold you until you get to Bandoth in Upper Dorn's. You may not have the greatest choice of spells for every level, but most of the time a SC mage has access to spells of his/her highest castable level with a 6-character party on normal.

A single classed thief is perhaps the worst character in the game, but works well enough when combined with another class; I prefer fighter, to give me a dedicated badass archer with enough HP to scout or sneak attack if necessary. I steer away from SC mages because of low HP and other combat values.

Dual class is fine, especially if you have a bard, as you will not have to spend any thieving points on pickpocket. Be warned that dualling can remove thief skills at critical points of the game, however. The final level of Dragon's Eye is sheer frustration without an active thief - I've done it, but only with three clerics to shower healing and remove status effects on characters triggering traps that reset without a thief's trap removal ability. The DE lvl 5 locks are pretty well unbreakable, even with potions of giant strength, so you need the knock spell if you don't have a high open locks skill.

Evasion is gained at lvl 7. You could dual there if you like, as there are multiple items, potions, and spells that can temporarily raise your skills if necessary (Girdle of Gond from Orrick, Cat's Grace for increased Dex, Luck song/spell, various potions, rings and cloaks for better Hide skills). If you don't scout or backstab, put the majority of points in Find Traps and Open Locks - scouting and filching can be covered by other characters.

At higher levels and higher difficulty levels, a mage is worth its weight in gold. Web, Slow, Confusion, Cloudkill, and Acid Fog are only a few spells capable of changing the tide of an otherwise difficult fight.

krunchyfrogg 01-03-2006 06:46 AM

I've gotten as far as Lower Dorn's Deep before, but this is a fresh install, and I'm starting over again.

I plan on putting all my points into OL and F/RT. As you said, PP is covered by my Bard, and if I really do need to scout, I'll put some light armor on my R/C to handle the job.


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