I've got two games going and no time to play, so I won't be doing this for a while, if ever, - but...

What characters would you add to a HoW/TotL party starting from scratch that contained two human fighters that would dual-class at lvl 13 to mages or specialist mages?

It's something I've been mulling over lately. A party based around two F/M, possibly dualing one or both to a specialist mage. General idea is to have one be a distance killer, and one be a melee god. Thinking 3* in bows + 5* in daggers for the former, and 5* in Axe or Great Sword + whatever for the latter.

Suggestions?

Bard,
figther/druid (DC or multi preferably DC),
Fighter/thief (DC or multi preferably DC),
Paladin (or a dwarven fighter/cleric or a half-elf ranger/cleric or a DC of version of one of the two)

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Aerich,

[hunched over, rubbing hands and baring fangs in glee.] Design a party around 2 Battle Mages? Now here's an opportunity I can't pass up! Assuming, as always, the party will complete HoW and TotLM...

Well, after an hour of thought: Here's my perfect party... Oops! Unfortunately it has 7 characters!

1.) Fighter[12]/Mage [distance, *****Axe (use double-handed), ***Bow, no shield]
2.) Fighter[13]/Illusionist [melee, *****LongSword, ***Bow, shield]
3.) Fighter[9]/Thief [****LargeSword, ***Bow]
4.) Fighter[12]/Druid [*****Scimitar, ***Sling]
5.) Fighter[10]/Cleric [*****Mace, **Sling]
6.) Cleric[13]/Fighter [*****Hammer, ***Sling]
7.) H-elf Bard

Hmmm... And I don't have infravision. Hmmm... Not as easy as I thought it would be, especially when one is a dirty, greasy, greedy power-gamer like I am. Ground rule is 2 heavy DC F/M. I have been so spoiled with 2 DC Clerics that I want both of them, too. Need a DC or MC Thief. Want a DC Druid to make things interesting. Gotta have a Bard to fill in for Mage duties in the early game and to turbocharge this whole mess of Fighters with War Chant in the mid-to-late game. Hmmm... Decisions, decisions...

Is there any possible way to MC or DC: a Druid/Cleric; Druid/Thief; or Cleric/Thief? I have doubts about the latter two, but am hoping the Druid/Cleric is a possibility.

</font>--------------------<font color = mediumspringgreen>
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
</font>

Cleric/Thief is possible. Erm, *slight hesitation* I know Thief-to-Cleric is possible - I've got one in the priest-party. Works ok, but certainly isn't the key party member yet - good support character, though. I dualed to Cleric (losing my thief skills) on DE lvl 3, at clvl 11. The remainder of DE was a pain, as were the confusion/poison traps in the Severed Hand.

You can't go Druid/Cleric because it's forbidden to D/C within the same "type"; it would be like going Fighter to Ranger. (Yes, I know you can do stuff like that in IWD 2...)

I've been mulling over a couple combinations:

1) F/M
2) F/M

3) Paladin (with LS, of course), or F (dwarven) - axe specialty, freeing up a F/M to take something different (LS, GS, dagger)
4) T/Cl - multi or dual[10] (gnomes can go multi, I think)
5) F/D - dual by preference
6) Bard

OR

3) F[13]/Dr
4) F[9?]/Cl
5) F/T - multi, or dual if can get to Flvl 9 before DE lvl 5
6) Bard

Fun, isn't this? :D

Erm, *slight hesitation* I know Thief-to-Cleric is possible - I've got one in the priest-party.

Fun, isn't this? :D

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Aerich,

Yes, quite fun. Some times I think this is more fun than actually playing the game (but then I play and realize how foolish that statement is).

O.K., given that you made a DC Thief/Cleric work, I assume an MC is O.K. That solves my crunch. I was not happy with the frailty of my MC Mage/Thief in the late game, especially since she was always pulling point-man duty; but a Thief/Cleric should be significantly sturdier with the extra HP and wearing better armor. I also wasn't pleased that my Bard soon outstripped my MC Thief/Illusionist in Mage power. Hate to see my Thief/Cleric hobble along on the Cleric side. Oh, well, we do have another full DC Cleric in the party; so have the two-Cleric party that I found so valuable in HoW/TotLM. And with the Gnome, we regained infravision. O.K., Here's my entry into the "Dual Battle-Mage Power Party" sweepstakes:

1.) Fighter[13]/Illusionist [*****LongSword, ***Bow, shield]
2.) Fighter[12]/Necromancer [*****Axe (use double-handed), ***Bow]
3.) Fighter[12]/Druid [*****Scimitar, ***Sling]
4.) Fighter[10]/Good_Cleric [*****Mace, **Sling]
5.) Gnome Thief/Neutral_Cleric [*Hammer, *Sling]
7.) H-elf Bard

Down to 4 heavies instead of 5, and backstabbing is out of the question; but we have our Thief, kept the Druid -AND- Bard, and are 2 deep in Clerics and 3 deep in Mages (including TWO full Battle-Mages and the Bard). This will work.

Neither one of the Battle-Mages can be strictly classified as front line or ranged: either one is just as deadly as a full Fighter at either position, and both will sport over 150 HP at the DC (Assuming CON=18). The Illusionist has the advantage of the extra 1/2 ApR from making F[13]; and the Illusion spells (Mirror Image, Blur, Improved Invisibility) make her excellent tank material (the Necro does not have access to these spells). The Necromancer, on the other hand, has a plethora of spells in the Necro school (that the Illusionist cannot access) that call for physical contact with the enemy, i.e., also good in the front line; but for different reasons.

I think the Illusionist spells are more important for front line. The Necro can always come up front to lay hands on a baddie and fry them back to the netherworld, then retreat if necessary. Both Mages have access to the important Conjuring and Invocation schools; and, between the two, all schools are covered. Add in the general Mage capabilities of the Bard and we are way beyond well covered in arcane skills.

BTW, I think the MC restrictions are for Specialist Mage: IIRC, only a Gnome can MC a specialist Mage, and only an Illusionist at that.

</font>--------------------<font color = mediumspringgreen>
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
</font>

[ 10-13-2004, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

<font face="Verdana" size="3" color="#00FF00">Yes a MC Thief/Cleric is possible but is only available for one race. I think it is the Gnome that this combo is possible for.</font>

[ 10-13-2004, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]