A while back, I played IWD for the second time. This time with Heart of Winter and Trial of the Luremaster in multiplayer mode. However, unlike most on these boards, I don't think TotL was all that great. Some Luremaster is throwing riddles at you, while you are just trying to get out of that godforsaken place by battling countless monsters. I did like that cloak though, and the maps were HUGE, but I preferred still Heart of Winter. The storyline was better and, although she was very weak, we got to fight a dragon.


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If it is evil you seek, seek no further...

You have a valid point.

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Devoted member of the Ironworks
Loyal guardian of the OHF
Member of the Ancients' club

I am in the last batlle of ToLM and i thought it sucked http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif I did like the way the plot unfolded but most of the riddles were too easy, all the early figths are sooo easy and then later ones are hard because they are just monster fests. That said its free and so you can't grumble you paid loads for it and it was rubbish http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

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http://website.lineone.net/~swhite10...ile/knight.gif Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger

[This message has been edited by Sir_Tainly (edited 08-16-2001).]

I was just gonna say that. It was free, so keep your greaves!

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"Eh? No, I don't hold grudges. Why? There's nothing to hold a grudge against, I kill what pisses me off!"

The reason most people prefer TotL over HoW is the story. In the end, most stories come down to killing critters (IWD, if you are evil, to get out of the area is your reason for fighting the evil, just like TotLhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif).

What people didn't care for about in HoW is the way xp was thrown at you. Here, have xp. Oh, send a kid back, have xp. Do the wolf thing, have a ton of xp. The maps were straight forward. Enter here. Kill everything between you and there. Leave there. Repeat on the next map. And, in addition to that, the maps were pretty small with a lack of variety of what to fight. Combine that with the fact that some critters are annoying (Wailing Virgins) and a lack of proper balancing (hardest fight is the virgins + drowned dead... it's also the first fight). And then there is the playtime total. If you tried, you could probably get through HoW in under 5 hours, without too much trouble.

Combine all that and you've got why many people don't care too much for it.

Myself, I'm inclined to agree. The engine and class balancing things were great. The new weapons rock, as do the new spells. But the adventure itself in HoW wasn't that hot. It felt like there wasn't much time invested in making an interesting adventure... just a somewhat clever premise (the sword and the dragon) and that was about as far as the creativity went.

TotL, while also having some problems (like the first harpy + friends fight being tougher than most of the following fights), focuses more upon the storyline. The end result is less hack from point A to point B levels, more puzzles, combined with more interesting characters.

Anyway, most people view TotL as being the completion of HoW... that HoW should have included TotL. Without it, it just feels incomplete.

Coming home late, checking the boards, the liquor appals me to put down some thoughts on all your nice replys...


As always, I'm impressed by the well conceived responses I get from all you RPG fans. It seems to me the genre is most appreciated by the clever few amongst us people. But why are the most game so very straightforward then? To appeal to the masses? While browsing the boards I find the people here appreciate the subtleties in the genre, the story, the balance.
I ask you, will as this change with the coming of NWN? As every creative mind has the opportunity to create its own adventure or campaign, will we marvel at the worlds created right before our eyes? Or will we bow our humble heads to Bioware, the masters of the genre, the ultimate game-makers and reason for all of us being here? I wonder, really I do.
For with all the things taking into consideration from these Ironworks forums, making a great adventure doesn't seem too hard. Oh well, maybe the scripting will prove to be a bridge too far. But nevertheless, I urge you all to watch out for my campaign. None will be disappointed if I ever find the heart to put it online. But maybe not. Maybe I should just go to sleep now. I think I will.

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If it is evil you seek, seek no further...

Well, with NWN, we'll get good and bad. There are some great GM's out there. And if the engine lets them do the things they tend to do with PnP, what they'll produce should be pretty awesome. But the majority of people will produce simple, straight-forward adventures... and many will be flawed, some quite badly. Hard to find people with the creativity, skills, time, and willingness to put together awesome adventures.

If NWN is any sort of hit though, figure there will be a bunch of sites that rate modules/dm's.

I liked TotL overall, and as was said before its free so you can't complain too much.

As for NWN, I think it could turn out like mods for FPS games. Frankly most of them are pretty bad, but a few like Counter-Strike, TFC, Day of Defeat etc are very fun and well done. I think NWN could attract some good people, but allot of the modules will probably be straight up dungeon hacks.

Until I came to this thread. I didn't even know what TOtL was. Now I know about NWN and I also know that anyone who puts work into their world can make it as awesome as Biowares/Blackisles. Perhaps even better. Axeterix is right there are going to be people who make crappy quests. And then there are people who will make huge quests that spread across a enormous world. They'll do the whole works, voices, scripting, and all. These will be the dungeon masters who made PnP so fun. Or they could be just plain CRPG crazy like me.http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I just don't have to listen. http://train.missouri.org/~prestons/.../flamedrag.gif