Greetings all,

People often recommend dualing from fighter to class X at 13th level. I've just turned 12th and am wondering if there's anything special about level 13 that makes it worthwhile hanging out for. There are two reasons I can think of that indicate 13th would be better than 12th, but can't find any supporting info in the docs. These are:

1. In PnP AD&D, getting a new proficiency every 3 levels leads to a progression of 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, ... The way it is coded in the IE, however, it is interpreted as 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, ... Having just turned 12th, I just got a new proficiency and there is none coming at 13th.

2. In 1st Ed. AD&D (the Ed. I'm familiar with), fighter classes gained extra attacks per round based on level. I think the progression was 3/2 attacks at 7th and 2 attacks at 13th. From what I can tell, 2nd Ed. rules remove this and replace it with proficiencies, again leading to no gain at 13th.

So, assuming the two points above are correct (I'm more than willing to be wrong here ;) ), is there another reason for me to press on to 13th? I imagine thac0 will go down another one, I'll gain 3hp and possibly some saves will drop further. Anything else?

Many thanks for any illumination on this black art.

Regards,

'Ranq

Personally I would dual where you are. The point of dueling it to enjoy the benefits of two classes, however late dualing while providing for a powerful first class also mean you will spend a HUGE amount of game time without these abilities while your second class slowly levels up. By waiting an extra level your PC will have to accumulate 1,125,000 experience as compared to 900,000 experience pints if you go now. I know there are fans of late dualing but I just don’t see how an extra half attack is that much of a benefit in the long run.

+ 1/2 Attack per Round
+ 3 HP
Saving Throws improve
THACO improves

It's more than just an additional ApR, which is a pretty solid reason all by itself. You gain no benefit from dualing at level 12, since gaining levels in mid-game is ludricously easy.

Bear in mind that the Cleric class has very low XP ascension per level.

If you are playing ToB then dual at level 13 because of additional benefits gained by any fighter class at level 13 (+1/2 attack, etc.)
If you are playing a plain SoA then level 12 is too late (except for soloists, duos and perhaps trios), even if you are dualling to a thief or a priest. You have spent 900 000 XP already. You will need next ca. 900 000 XP to become a dual class. It's too much. Also, we can see that dualling at level 13 in SoA is pure nonsense (again, except soloists etc.) You would become a dual class in the Hell most likely.

Doh! I forgot to address that issue. If you do not have ToB installed, the optimal level to dual from a Berserker to a Cleric is at level 9.

Many thanks for the help. So you do get an extra 1/2 attack per round at 13th on top of proficiencies? I thought that had been done away with in 2nd Ed.

Regarding ToB, yes I am going SoA + ToB. I had previously started a game with the intention of just SoA and had dualed Athranq at 9th. After a good while I decided I really liked the game and started afresh, ready to go the whole hog through to ToB, resulting in the current dilemma.

Thanks again, 13th here I come!

'Ranq

Eh? What proficiencies, all the benefits of level 13, I have already listed out in my first post in this thread.