So I'm down in the Underdark with ~60K to my name. I've mucked out the Kuo-Toans, chopped up the Beholders, and reduced the mind flayer/devourer/illithid to psionic puddles. There is nothing to purchase in Ust Natha. Yeah, I can buy slaves and maybe a drow for the evening. And the 10 potions of extra healing from one of the main walkway/platfrom no-name vendors did come in handy. Nothing else. Oh, sure, that dagger +3 looks nice. Might help if a character of mine had proficiency points in daggers. And that +4 halberd would be a sweet items, except Minsc just loves dual-wielding Daystar and a +3 drow longsword. The scrolls were sweet shopping, but it's not like I already had them in my book or anything. The Duregar were more helpful--first scroll of Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting! Listen to those warrior weenies croak! And thank you, imprisoned Underdark mage. One scroll of Freedom equals one Rod of Absorption!

And Phaere was real surprised at betrayal, let me tell you. Not like she was going to offer me up to the demon or anything, but still...

We hauled heck outta there and returned Adalon's eggs to her. Loved the story there. She never tells you the circumstances of how she got the eggs, and you only hear it in dismissive Drow tales. Very touching story.

Here I go saving the lives of the Suldanesselar elves from their evil Drow cousins, and here comes Grand Moff Eltan pestering me about my business down in Drowland. Let's see, I'm chasing Irenicus. Yes, y'all are also chasing Irenicus. No, I'm not allied with Irenicus. See, he took away my highly useful Draw Upon Holy Might and gave me the ability to turn into Diablo and Baal's love child. Yes, I'm a child of Bhaal. And you're pretty freakin annoying yourself, and that cadre of wannabe sages behind you aren't helping things.

So, you want me to go fetch the magical lantern so you can find your way home? What do you mean, you can't do it yourself? Can't you just dispatch some of your weenies--I mean soldiers--and take on the vampire lair? There's just six of us and there are HOW many of you interrogating me at the moment?! Maybe, just maybe, instead of pressuring someone who doesn't like you into fetching the one thing that can get you back into your home, you can spare some of your warriors to go die at the hands of the vampires instead of the drow. Okay?

Well, maybe not. But here's a good thing: Drizzt and company have agreed to help me. And whats-his-name and his pink (red) axe.

I took the advice of an earlier posting and waited until chapter 6 to install the improved items mod. I was expecting more weapons I couldn't use. I checked out the Adventurer's Mart first. My tongue was lolling out of my mouth and onto the floor all over Ribald's boots. My GOODNESS! LOOK at this stuff! Yeah, the weaponry's pretty much useless to me at this point, but that helmet! And that armor! And the scrolls! Hello, level 9 spells! Too bad I can't memorize them and use them. Looks like one-time-use-only items. Best of them all, chain contingency! I'd hate to be the person who attempts to hit Aerie or Imoen now...hehehehehe...

My next chance at slobbering came at Cromwell's place. Improved Lilarcor, my butt. The best thing about this sword is that fact that it talks! And some of these other items would give convulsions to the lactose intolerant. "If you give me some stuff the mind flayers dropped in the Underdark, I can make gear that will protect you from mind flayers." Whoop-de-doo, Cromwell. The only time I needed those items were when I was, oh, say, fighting them in the Underdark.

Skullcrusher would be lovely, but the only enemies in my foreseeable future are vampires and Chancellor Gorkon. I doubt the +6 damage to humanoids applies to soul-stealing elves or Klingon leaders.

This enhanced archmagi robe seems nice, but I still have a set of Drow elven chain +3 among the adamantite dust. Might invest in that if the armor crumbles as well.

Holy buckler of Amaunator? By Helm, that's powerful! I'd upgrade Aerie's shield of harmony or make this buckler, but I used most of the shield of harmony's ingredients back in the Underdark (maybe because the game provided me with them to use them at the time...those crazy designers at BioWare...), and I'm a cleric/ranger, and somehow using the symbol of a god involved with my town protection duties seems wrong.

I wish I could get more illithium. I could coat half the weapons I have in it, and be immune to level drain. Talk about sleepwalking through Bodhi's lair. Heck, if I were evil, I'd just stand by and watch as Bodhi and company took out Drizzt.

I don't mean to hang Weimer out to dry with this post. I was just expecting some things, and got others, and I'm a little disappointed. I was hoping for brand-new items on a par with the easter egg Crom Faeyr. More of a treasure hunt sort of thing. Like incorporating mithril tokens, Dace's hand, Qilue's brain, fake silver dragon eggs, low-end rare gems like tchazar and moonstone gems to make strange new items. What I found here was "take Good Item, add Easy to Find Gem(s), add Easy to Earn Money, and together they make Better Item That Just So Happens to Protect Against an Extremely Troublesome Effect. A variation on this formula can create "Better Item That Is +4 or +5 So You Can Hit Late-Game Enemies With It."

I may be a little on the suicidal side (I'm a pubby-playing beyond naked mage, after all), but fun comes from challenge, and the challenge comes from accomplishing things in spite of the risks involved. Level drain, confusion, illithid psionics, ADHW, and other things are all risks taken in battle. Carrying items such as Azuredge +4 or Water's Talon +4 decreases that risk and, IMO, decreases the fun. Take the immunities off these items, or put these things on the item as once-per-day rechargable stats, and they'd be great.

I'm also sad at the treatment of other gear. All the upgradable rings and amulets require other magical rings and amulets to make. The Amulet of Ilmater requires 2 Amulets of Protection +1, the Periapt of Proof against Poison, the Necklace of Form Stability, and the Amulet of Spell Warding. Two of my characters would be running around necklace-less to make this item. Same with the protection rings. And the belts! This game is stingy when it comes to holding up pants. The way belts are done with Cromwell, I have one character with lots of resistance to weapons and the others with none.

All I ask for is a combination of the two. For example, take three unique short swords, Dace's hand, and a couple emeralds to make a pair of wakizashi +3 that give poison damage and can cast lesser restoration once per day. Or a ring of animal control, a RoP +1, a potion of mind focusing, and protection from energy scroll to make a control ring +1 that has a 40% chance of charming any target creature with hit dice equal to the caster and a 40% chance of feebleminding the caster.

I'm sorry to have turned this into a rant, but some of these items are much appreciated. Anomen's finally wearing his family shield again, for one thing. Chapter 6 is now a candy store, and I have 60K to go out and spend! Now, where's that Kangaxx character I've been hearing so much about? ;)

well.... yes ok, but if you dont like it, make a better mod and distribute it free for anyone to use

Yes and no. Depends on the number of people in the party. If you are trying to go through with 3-4 or less, it is nice to be able to consolidate a bunch of these items. Some items are only marginally worth the inventory slot, and combining them gives them new life. Obviously consolidating all those thief items if Jan is your main thief may not be the best idea.

I thought the item upgrades made a nice change of pace. Those +3 spears are no longer just a source of cash. It addded to the later game tactical choices, increasing the variety and replayability, and made up for some bad weapon prof choices some NPCs made, like Jaheira's specialization in clubs.

I'm still a little disappointed in the game's magical weapons. Whether you are talking PnP or the standard fantasy literature, the bulk of the really special weapons were (what the game would call) longswords or hand-and-a-half swords, and to a lesser extent, two-handed swords. And I'm sure most players come from a background of fantasy literature or RPGs, and brought that image along with them.

I do agree with you that it might have been nice to be able to accumulate the components to produce belts, particularly since for some reason, the designers decided that some more general purpose items, like the golden girdle, are available only as a part of a stronghold quest, available only to certain classes. It would have been nice to be able to fabricate a Jaheira only anti-curse, anti-poison item out of her lock of hair. I also agree that it would have been nice to be able to take a "cash" sword, like Ilbratha, and add to the number of mirror images, and maybe even the plusses, or something of the like, though the engine appears to make that a little difficult -- it appears each upgraded item must have a distinct name and stats, not just some base to which you can add qualities.

I just find it a little sad as I browse through the list of magical items in the Copper Coronet by the end of the game and think of all the effort that went into all those items I never even considered using -- their history, their definition, their placement, and all. Kondar, the Adventurer's Robe, Skin of the Ghoul, Hangard's Axe, Wyvern's Tail, not to mention the dozens of "normal" +2 weaponry...

Overall, yeah, there are things I would have liked to see done differently, but I understand that there are game-type limitations that have put severe restrictions on the game modders.

Trust me, there is quite an impressive load of stuff to buy (or steal) for you in Ust Natha: The best shield in the game, the 2nd-best Spear, a great Mage Robe for Edwin or Jan, a kickass Amulet....etc. Perhaps you only spoke to one of the Drow Merchants, instead of all 3. Oh well, too late now.

Just FYI, the Item Upgrade MOD is completely independent of Ribald's "special" items--Ribald grants you access to his secret stash in Chapter 6, whether you've got any MODs installed or not.

I agree--if you don't have ToB, all the Illithid-related equipment is almost literally useless--you can give the Shield of Harmony a +1 boost to its AC bonus, whoopie. :|

Actually, it does. Humanoid doesn't necessarily mean Human--Pretty much all laterally bifurcated, bipedal four-limbed creatures within the size range of any of the playable races--Half-Orc through Halfling--counts as humanoid. If Hold Person works on it, Skullcrusher does too.

Any Drow item that did not disintegrate when you left the Underdark is a bug, and it will *all* disintegrate eventually, or at least it will if you have ToB. Sure, the Elven Chain grants a better AC, but the Enhanced Robe has better Saves, spell memorization, and Magic Resistance.

How does helping a Good-aligned God out of two big messes, and then taking his Holy Symbol and affixing it to the boss of your shield seem wrong? It's not like you're destroying it or anything, it's still even named after the guy.

Well, about the "Incorporating Quest Items that become useless after the Quest is completed:" Didn't we just cover the Holy Symbol of Amaunator? And then there are items like the Mind Flayer Birthing Brine, the Demon Hearts, etc. Sure, there are still some items left over, such as the paintings from Spellhold, but Weimer can't find uses for everything, you know. About the incorporating low-end gems: Why do you think I wrote in the 5 Sunstone gems for the Holy Buckler? And yes, the upgrade does "Protect Against an Extremely Troublesome Effect," because without this Buckler, Thieves have no protection whatsoever against Level Drain. And since PC Thieves can't work for Bodhi, that means they have to resort to the cheese of Protection From Undead. That (and the reason that enchanted Bucklers were--and still are--SORELY lacking in the game) is why I designed the Buckler in the first place. And what's wrong with raising the level of enchantment? If a player has fallen in love with a weapon, s/he hates to feel obliged to lay it aside simply because they can get better THAC0 bonuses with something else.

The Illithium/NPP immunity makes perfect sense to me, although you do have a point, I don't think Rashad's Talon, Adjatha the Drinker, or the Water's Edge had anything to do with Charm, Confusion, or Horrid Wilting. Weimer was trying to FINALLY give Druids a really good melee weapon (with which he succeeded in his Clubs), and he wanted to give it some additional enchantments--I just don't understand the motivation behind the ones he chose.

I'm not discrediting the man for his work, don't get me wrong. There are some nice surprises in the item mix. I read the Readme file and the same gap is in ToB as well for Cespenar.

I just wish more emphasis had been placed on making totally new items out of obscure bits and pieces rather than upgrade exisiting gear using easily-obtained items. (Remember when I talked about Crom Faeyr being an Easter egg? You have to do some challenging quests to get all the pieces, and CF is by far the best weapon in the game without the mod.)

I was also hoping for an evil item or two. Neb's Nasty Cutter and the Human Flesh armor can't be all the evil stuff in this game.

And as far as the "why don't you just make one yourself" comment goes, I couldn't make a MOD if I tried--I just don't have the skills. However, I like the improved item mod, will recommend this and other WeiDU mods to other BG2 gamers, and I plan on downloading a few other WeiDU mods once I've finished with this game. From one creator to another, the best compliment you can give anyone about the work they produce is to keep, use, and recommend it.

Trust me, there is quite an impressive load of stuff to buy (or steal) for you in Ust Natha: The best shield in the game, the 2nd-best Spear, a great Mage Robe for Edwin or Jan, a kickass Amulet....etc. Perhaps you only spoke to one of the Drow Merchants, instead of all 3. Oh well, too late now.

I spoke to all the merchants. I think I bought the shield (Sentinel, was it?), I had no use for the spear since I prefer the staff of Arundel on Jaheira, and passed up the magic resistance amulet.

Just FYI, the Item Upgrade MOD is completely independent of Ribald's "special" items--Ribald grants you access to his secret stash in Chapter 6, whether you've got any MODs installed or not.

Yeah, and all of that was written before the improved item rant. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Actually, it does. Humanoid doesn't necessarily mean Human--Pretty much all laterally bifurcated, bipedal four-limbed creatures within the size range of any of the playable races--Half-Orc through Halfling--counts as humanoid. If Hold Person works on it, Skullcrusher does too.

Aha. And now I'm tempted to give that to Anomen, lower his AC as far as I can, and let Bodhi kidnap him. :D

Any Drow item that did not disintegrate when you left the Underdark is a bug, and it will *all* disintegrate eventually, or at least it will if you have ToB.

Yup, everything's dust now. I was thinking the ore merchant might want some, but all this adamantine dust is useless now. :(

How does helping a Good-aligned God out of two big messes, and then taking his Holy Symbol and affixing it to the boss of your shield seem wrong? It's not like you're destroying it or anything, it's still even named after the guy.

I'm going to take his holy symbol, the most precious object of Amauanator still in the material plane, affix it to my shield, and get vampire guts all over it. Wonderful way to honor a deity, no? ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Well, about the "Incorporating Quest Items that become useless after the Quest is completed:" Didn't we just cover the Holy Symbol of Amaunator? And then there are items like the Mind Flayer Birthing Brine, the Demon Hearts, etc. Sure, there are still some items left over, such as the paintings from Spellhold, but Weimer can't find uses for everything, you know.[qb]

Tis true. I'm still carting around a lot of unsellable junk, including a plain unenchanted necklace I've had since chapter 2. I wanted more of the treasure hunt aspect. I dunno.

[qb]About the incorporating low-end gems: Why do you think I wrote in the 5 Sunstone gems for the Holy Buckler?

Because every low-level critter in the game drops one? [img]tongue.gif[/img] I mentioned tchazar and moonstone gems because they're rare finds but pretty common gems. The Spook of gems, if you will.

And yes, the upgrade does "Protect Against an Extremely Troublesome Effect," because without this Buckler, Thieves have no protection whatsoever against Level Drain. And since PC Thieves can't work for Bodhi, that means they have to resort to the cheese of Protection From Undead. That (and the reason that enchanted Bucklers were--and still are--SORELY lacking in the game) is why I designed the Buckler in the first place.

You designed the buckler upgrade? That's interesting...and from the way you explained it, necessary. I'm used to giving thieves short bows and short swords. Never occured to me about solo play, and didn't know that thieves can't work for Bodhi. Makes sense, though, if she's fighting against the Shadow Thieves.

And what's wrong with raising the level of enchantment? If a player has fallen in love with a weapon, s/he hates to feel obliged to lay it aside simply because they can get better THAC0 bonuses with something else.

I fell in love with Lilarcor because it was a talking sword, and its upgrade shuts it up. That made me sad. :( The upgrades for the other weapons aren't very spectacular, component-wise. Depending on where you sell your items back, a fast stop in the Bridge District or Trademeet can get you most of the components.

(I'm going to stop here before this post completely degrades into "oh how I wish it would have been" and spare y'all the grief. [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

[ 03-11-2003, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Pirengle the BNM ]

[quote]Originally posted by Pirengle the BNM:

Quote:

I fell in love with Lilarcor because it was a talking sword, and its upgrade shuts it up. That made me sad. :( )

I think that's more to do with difficulties with reproducing the conditions of making Lilarcor conversable, rather than with Westley wanting to shut it up [img]smile.gif[/img]