Do you want higher or lower? i allways forget this stuff after i come back from "breaks"

The lower the better.

Just take a look at the change when you equip a Ring of Protection. Throws are lowered.

ya, thats what i thought. just posted to make sure. can never be to sure.

So, when an item has an effect like, "must save vs. spells at -4", is that a penalty or a bonus? Will they have a better chance of winning their throw than a normal save vs. spells?

Yeah, that's one of the things I hate about the manual. The quote above describes a penalty to the target's Save, and BioWare makes the mistake of using AD&D wording to describe it. The "-4" means that you roll the D20, 4 is subtracted from your roll, and the result is compared to your Saving Throw. Of course, a "-4 penalty" means exactly the same thing as adding 4 to your Save--extremely confusing.

That's why, in Volothamp's Comeuppance, I *always* state whether any modifier is a bonus or a penalty, except on things where "more = better," like hitpoints and Dexterity.

Thanks, Six.

so how exactly are saving throws calculated? i know you roll on a d20, and you have to get your saving number (exaple, 3) or higher to save vs. the spell? it can be realy confusing at first. even dex and stuff, and like subtracting thac0 from ac and you have to roll that and stuff, it sounds easy once you get it but its hard then lol.

In order to roll a successful save, you have to be at your save number or higher. So if you've got a save vs. spells of 3 and have to save vs. spells, a 3 or higher will work of you. Note that, IIRC, 1 fails, regardless of how good your saves are.

<font color="blue"> ya, makes sense. can you have negatice thac0? Ex. (thac0 - ac = roll number) -2 - 4 = -6, who could you roll a -6???? or -2 - (-5) = 3, rolling a 3 or higher. that make sense? for ac 4 you have to roll a - number, meaning any number you roll works, right? but if they have a - ac then you have to roll a 3. haha am i even making sense? i dont know, its been a hard day. am i right on ANY of this? thanks :D </font>

<font color="green"> Edit: haha, edited some stupidity here </font>

[ 03-05-2003, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: Xero279 ]