Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

<font color = mediumspringgreen>What the HELL? So far, the changes included are:

1. No origins. You play a predetermined character like in Mass Effect. Hopefully you'll be able to change his appearance. You can only be a human. Sorry Elves and Dwarves!

2.No more tree branch dialogue. Dialogue now is the wheel from mass effect, which hints at what emotions are going to be used in the different responses. ie: {anger} {Flirt} etc

3."Better Graphics". Screenshots can be found at the top of this page.I know it's still early in development, but the second screen is just HORRID. Not something I'd be proud to unveil.

4.For console users, the strategy based combat is gone. They're changing it for more "fluid, gamepad combat." Combat on PC will remain unchanged from tactical.

After doing a little research, that's all I see. I am extremely dissapointed. It just looks like they're trying to turn DA 2 into the lovechild betweeen MAss Effect 2 and The Witcher, instead of staying to the formula that earned them a resepectable new IP. See how shortlived the "Spiritual successor" to baldurs gate thing lasted?

I realise that Mass effect 2 sold more, so I'm not sure who to blame. Bioware, or EA. Obviously EA, but if all of these are the choices of Bioware, I'm not sure what to think anymore.

God knows my girlfriend will be dissapointed. It's her first RRG on the computer, and she's invested a lot of hours into it. She hates Mass Effect 2. *sigh*

Guess we'll all just have to wait and see. And hope for the best. </font>

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Well, maybe I will find it easier to get into DA2 than I did the original. The screens do look washed out but not too different. I would be surprised if they did a complete graphical overhaul for the sequel. My money is on them tweaking the original, and boxing it with the name Dragon Age 2 on it.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Meh, I kinda like Mass Effect 2. I see nothing wrong with going into that direction. No more origin story? suit me just fine. The origin story was a gimmick anyway, after you finish it the rest of the story become the same. So one would play all the origin stories and then choose 1 you like to continue playing the rest. Better graphic? The screenshot certainly didn't do justice then, as I see it is way worse the DA1.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Well, I agree the origin story was indeed a gimmick. You know what it was? A ripped off version of the starting areas in WoW. Once you get out in the world it don't matter if you're a noble or an elven scrub. There are some minor references, but not enough to warrant the title "Origins". For that matter you could call WoW, Warcraft: Origins.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

<font color = mediumspringgreen> Oh don't be that guy. WoW is certainly not the first game to have different starting areas.

People just thought that your origins would impact more. Turns out they didn't, except for the final decision and some conversation choices, and how a few plot relevant characters treated you. That was Bioware's attempt at the gimmick, and it failed.

But now what was one of the few "Create your OWN character, choose a race, etc, fantasy RPG's is just turning into another Mass Effect/The Witcher Combo. Hell, on consoles, might as well add Fable as an illegitimate father due to the hack and slashing.

Unrelated, I do find myself excited for Fable 3. But that's another topic entirely. </font>

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

It's not, but it is the first to be most successful doing so. From day one I saw MAJOR similarities between DA and WoW. I actually think of DA as the offline version of it. Or the single-player version. And why not? There's no shame in emulating stuff that works. You say yourself the origins didn't have much effect or lasting meaning in this game. Well, I feel they have the same impact on your characters path as your race does in WoW. That's all :)

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Colour me unsuprised at this news.

I just finished Awakening for the first time in 14 hours and I must say that it was very lukewarm compared to even Origins, which was mediocre at best. Then you compare it to the likes of Throne of Bhaal or Tales of the SwordCoast and it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Insipid level design, unmemorable encounters, lack of quality choices that made Origins somewhat interesting and very weak short responses in dialogue.

Mass Effect 2 was a 22 hour experience for me and whilst having an interesting enough characters and interactive cut-scenes, its weak combat and streamlined (i.e dumbed down) character system spoilt it and made it relatively forgettable.

To see the Dragon Age IP travel down this Mass Effect direction and away from the traditional cRPG even more, is not really a surprise if you consider the financial success that BioWare and EA have had as a consequence. Doesn't make it any less frustrating for the roleplayers amongst us though.

For more information on Dragon Effect, check RPGWatch's reactions/links: http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10917

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

<font color = mediumspringgreen> Seems to me the only relatively RPG experience we can look forward to is, ironically, in an MMO. From waht I've looked at for The Old Republic, it may well be a better RPG than DA 2 is shaping to be.

Which is sad, really. </font>

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Did you find it hard to get into the first one did you? I found it hard to get into the PS3 version of it as the interface was too hard for me to get used to. Loved the PC version of it though!!! :D

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Bah, I start and stop. I make a character and get into the game, then I get bored. Sometimes I don't get past the starting area. Sometimes I go hours into it. Inevitably though, I realize I am not having fun anymore and just lack the motivation to continue.

I can't seem to pinpoint my problem. I am not sure if it's the classes or the gameplay or the engine or a combination of all these things. I gave up trying at this stage and have moved onto other things. Maybe DA2 will do it for me, who knows?

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

<font color = mediumspringgreen>A major point is the plotline for me. I get bored with "Do the same thing 3 different ways, then save the day." I guess I'm beyond that point of it being interesting now?</font>

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Like, you,Mems, I loved the pc DAOrigins! Am playing through for the second time with a different start character, even.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Figured I'll throw my two cents in as well since I'm going through my second run of DA:O (never finished the first time).

Dragon Age: Origins feels much more like NWN than BG IMO. The only resemblance to BG that I see in DA:O is the very great dialogue system (with NPC's and people). Other than that, the formula seems very similiar to NWN. It's not what I was expecting, and I do find DA:O to be mediocre at best.

That being said, I also looked at what the second game is supposed to be like, and I dont' think I will even consider purchasing it. It looks horrid.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Baldurs Gate, particularly #2, rules all. Period.

What I want to see is a total-conversion project where all content from BG2 is ported in to the Dragon Age engine.
THAT, would be something to see!

For my money, I loved DA, and bought all content and expansions for it.

I also loved Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 more so. Mass Effect 2 got rid of a lot of annoyances that were present in ME1. The only lack was not enough side-quests and that you weren't able to wander about in as-large areas.

The graphical quality is excellent, however, I wonder why DA did not get the same graphics quality. It seems out-dated out of the box, only graphical improvement mods were able to fix this to some degree.

NWN I never cared for it all.. too much;
"You start here. Go to all four possible directions, and kill everything. Return and port to a new area and repeat."

As for KOTOR, I enjoyed that quite a bit, despite being horribly disappointed by the SW franchise lately. KOTOR2 was rushed and incomplete, and just not acceptable.
MMO's don't appeal to me at all, so I won't be playing the new one.

I have just preordered DA2 as well as The Witcher 2.
I think I will enjoy TW2 more.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

So. Dragon Age 2 come out tonight at Midnight. I have it pre-loaded but I probably won't get any time to play it before a couple of days.

You guys tried the demo? I found it to be more of a tech demo than an actual game demo. They just teleported you to three fights to make you try the new combat system and the interface. But still. The story I could glean through it seemed interesting.

Anyone else bought the game or is planing to buy it soon? I'll let you guys know what I think of it. But it might take a while.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

I pre-ordered it, so it should arrive soon. However, I'm going away for 2 weeks this weekend then when I come back my new kitten will be ready to live with me so dunno when I'll get to start playing it. Looking forward to it though! Loved Origins so hard. Didn't play the demo, they never do the whole game justice.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

I tried the demo, but from the responses my thread on it got - didn't think anyone else had. ;)

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

I had a javascript project to do last night so when the game went live at 3 am I gave it a try.

The info that get carried over from DA1 to DA2 seem really minor. It's more like cameos than anything else in my opinion. But we'll see I guess.

I had played the demo twice as a mage. I tried a warrior last night for retail and I found the game to be really fast paced. It's the fastest game I've played I think. The combat animations are really fast, minion enemies die really quickly and explode into a shower of body parts etc. It does feel like an arcade game at times. I think playing mage is the closest you get to DA1 because you are in control of the pace and your character isn't running all over the place. But after an hour I got used to the pace and I didn't notice it anymore. It's not that the game is easy. It's just that you have to get used to fighting waves of enemies.

But that said. I found the mood of the game to be pretty interesting once you get out of the prologue. So far I think the game is going to be interesting.

By the way. If you got the black emporium with your game you have to download it manually. No DLC appear in the game menu yet.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

I have played maybe 5-6 hours so far and I think I like this one more than Dragon Age 1.

The level design and the mood is way better, the fights are fast and more varied. The characters have a strong personality and are interesting. It's really great so far. :)

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Of course, I gather everyone noted the return of our very own Cap'n Janeway. She sounds much better in this. Not that she sounded bad before, but the character has changed.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

I think that Dragon Age 2 is a nice game - though it is for certain not a Dragon Age 2. I think that many games today are made with the intention of being something new - but few dares to rely on their ideas so they try to sell it to an already worked up crowd and simply mashes a 2 or 3 behind a common name and then changes too much for people to sit well with.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Im not sure that im a fan of the new plotline for the second dragon age. A continuation of the first one would have been better, like rebuilding the Grey Wardens and hunting down morgan and your child (if you took that road).

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

I pre-ordered from Steam, the game was released here midnight on Thursday night/Friday morning, and because I'd downloaded it in advance I was playing it shortly after that (although it conflicted with my 3D drivers and not being able to start the game confused me for a while until I worked it out!)

I'm now just starting Act II, and although I had misgivings based on bits of info I heard before playing, I have to say that it is actually a great game. There are some signs (IMO) that Bioware were rushed to produce another game in a short space of time - such as various interiors/caves/exteriors being duplicated in different locations - but the story (at least as much as I've played so far, I've avoided spoilers so don't know what lies ahead) makes up for that, and the companions are really well written. It is not without flaws, but it is still an interesting and fun game overall, and combat is fast and fun.

So far I'd give it 8.5 out of 10 - it's not going to usurp my favourite games from the top few places of my list, but it's well worth playing and certainly not the dud that some reviews have suggested.

Edit: AAARGH Since when has my age been visible right there under my avatar? It is rude to ask a woman her age, it's even more rude to display it like that! :eek:

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

I find the game worth playing - and the combat has been immensely improved. I have not found any other games with such a vibrant and detailed combat - I just love taking my rogue in for a backstab and then do a backflip out of harms way while vanishing mid-air to gut the next enemy with a twin stab of my daggers.
However I find the game storyline weak, the characters miss something ( I can't put a finger on it - but especially Hawke seems to be talking a bit like Dolph Lundgren as if reading from a script and not playing the role that is ).


Btw. a possible spoilerish question is included below...













Does anyone know when Isabella is availabe as a companion - I am utterly dissatisfied with Varrick as a rogue as he cannot melee - so I want her instead but I am still in chapter 1 and havent seen her in the hangman yet.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Personally I love the story and the characters. I love your family and everything. It's refreshing to play a hero who has one for once.

To get Isabella you must visit the tavern at night after having completed the tranquility quest. You must do this in act 1.

Don't forget to do the bait and switch quest too.

About age. I think there's an option in your profile to hide it.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Oi thanx Luvian - I will keep that in mind.


Damn I will soon have my 10th anniversary on Ironworks *wauw*

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Having completed Dragon Age 2 twice so far, with a 3rd play-through in progress, I must remark that overall, it has been a VERY engaging experience.

The neat thing is... not in a rainbows and robot unicorns way. I actually lost my temper multiple times and wrangled with internal frustration at the machinations going on in the game. Most of the recruit-able NPCs made me want to punt them off a cliff instead of saving them from their self-induced misery and conflict.

For all my anger though... it made me think, "Wow... this game really pushed my buttons." Most games choose to give you the option to save the world, get the girl, and pat the puppy along the way.

Not Dragon Age 2. I would elaborate more, but won't due to spoilers.

Needless to say, it has been very riveting; and now that I have gushed enough over the story element, I want to state that I want to face-punch the team in charge of the combat system.

Make up your damn minds. Don't mash styles haphazardly and hope it works out for the best. It's totally inane that if an enemy gets pushed back, your controlled character stops attacking entirely until you re-target the target. It also irks me every time a right-click cancels my current action.

I really miss the days when I could script the whole party to fight for themselves. I so want the option to let my selected character self-utilise his/her own tactics during combat.

Cheers.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

It's a pretty good game! I got to act 3 with my goody two shoes warrior romancing Merril and siding with the mages.

But there's some pretty bad bugs in this game. I couldn't finish the raiders on the cliff quest because the guard's dialogue would loop every time I talked to them. And some quest just never started or cleared.

Worse of all is the bug in the Merril romance quest line that spoils you the ending dialogue before you even start her chapter 3 quests. That plus the bug that slowly nerf your character if you are using a full item set or have a companion friendship buff.

So I pretty much put the game on hold until they fix the most glaring bugs. But I'm already thinking about my next two games. I think I'll have my warrior have a change of heart and side with the Templars, so that my rogue and mage can side with the mages. Although it would be interesting to see the mage side with the templars.

The only problem is that I'm playing the warrior as diplomatic, the rogue as charming and the mage as aggressive. I don't see how an aggressive mages could fit with them.

You guys tried the DLC with the archer elf? Is it long/good or does it just basically give you the character without adding new content? Is the character worth it?

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Twice already, my god.

I can barely play an hour or so before it frustrates me. It seems I just can't get into these DA games. Evidently they're not for me. Part one was the same for me, only I progressed a little further, but that was probably because I was waiting for the whole "Spiritual successor to BG" part to kick in. It never did.

The NPC's never shut up - I despise being interrupted every few mins. I also hate cutscenes filled with badly rendered avatars who are scripted to convey emotions they just can't. Wooden puppets come to mind. While the combat is alot more fun than part one, I eventually realize that I amn't terribly necessary, as my team takes care of most of the mobs before I get off a solid attack. Either that, or I'm dead before I get an attack off. One extreme or another most of the time. Take this with a grain of salt, as I don't know anything about later battles as I have not gotten far into it at all so I dunno if this all changes. I would like to think it gets a bit more challenging/interesting. Also, the cliche factor in dialogue and acting is still there - although I will say it is not as cheesy as DA 1.

I dunno. I remember being interrupted in BG 1 and 2 yet it didn't annoy me at all. I was actually interested in what the character was saying. And there were no technical pre-scripted cutscenes either - just a dialogue box with a picture of a partymember/NPC along with a voiceover. Yet it worked fabulously. I said it before, maybe it's just the lack of D&D factor for me. Holding out for this new Neverwinter game in the future.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

So I've been playing for a couple of days now, I have done quite a few quests and stuff. I'm enjoying many things about it, although I dislike the fact that you have to wait until your companions feel like it to talk to them about themselves and such, I preferred origins when you could talk to them whenever. And having to go back to their home base is really irritating too. I like the new system for abilities, but don't like the fact that there isn't an overhead viewpoint for combat - I find it difficult to control everyone when you have to zoom back to where the character is to select their actions.

However, I think the thing I am finding most dissatisfying is the plot, or lack of at this stage. There are quests listed as "main plot" but I don't know why they are main plot as opposed to other subquests. With Origins the main point of the game was always clear and you could do side quests but there was an overarching objective. I have no idea what is going on and what the point of the game is. I have hopes that it will be interesting and enjoyable, but it is frustrating to have no idea after hours of playing.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

In all fairness to NWN's, the campaign was a demo of what you could do with the toolset. NWN"s shined online in user created modules.

The thing I'm picking up on most about DA 2 is that it's not supposed to be a sequel, per se. They have created their own world, and they are attempting to flesh it out. How well they do remains to be seen, but going in expecting to "pick up where you left off" will leave some disappointed for sure.

Somebody commented on the hype that was "spiritual successor to BG". Although nothing will ever grab me the way BG did, they did hit it with char/NPC interactions. In the months following the initial release, people were getting upset if you didn't like Alistair, or like Morrigan, etc etc. I'm talking full scale flame wars. I think I was the president of the "He man Alistair haters club" for a while. I was also the inventor of the self replenishing box of kleenex especially for Alistair. Any time people can get that emotionally invested in the NPC's, somebody did something right.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

I dunno, I think there's more to good characters than the ability to generate hate and disdain. The problem here is, bad characters tend to do that too. And more often.

Like, I hate Lana Lang in Smallville, not because she is a good character, or because they fleshed her out - but because I hate her. Same with Lex Luthor.
I was so happy when they were removed from the cast, and never once thought "Oh I wish Lana or Lex came back". I was so sick and tired of seeing them that anything else would be a breath of fresh air. If there was anything to justify my investment in said hatred, it was Smallville and the Superman franchise - but not these characters, I wanted them gone.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

There are, however, people that would disagree with you. I'm not a big follower of either Smallville, or Superman in general. However, in the example I gave above, there were very heated debates between people that hated Alistair, for example here, and people that didn't. It's not that I disliked Alistair as a character, but more that I didn't like him as a person. I found him to be whiney, deceitful and childish. These are not traits that I would commonly assign to a character in a video game. These traits were brought home to me in a female PC run through, where, after his deceit about his lineage was revealed, he laid the blame on my character's feet, instead of owning it himself. The disdain that I held for him then holds true to this day, while I'm goofing off playing at DA: O again until I can get DA 2.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

So basically, there are people who hate him because he "betrayed" them in-game. As in, if he had not done this, they would still like him. Yeah, they are fans of him - sometimes known as fanboys. They like to hate him and are very into it etc. But, then there are people who just think he is a shitty character and has no business in a game, like me. People who feel the game would be better without him.

This is the distinction here. To say that the latter group of people deep-down actually like this character and that this speaks about how interesting and depthful he is, would not be true. They are not fans complaining about a twist in the plot. They are enemies.

It reminds me of that whole team Edward vs. team Taylor thing in Twilight. Teen girls arguing about who they love and hate, yet given the choice, they would not remove either because that's what makes the movie. They just a chance to talk about the characters and debate whether a vampite or wolf would be their dream date. (Personally, i'd slay them both and be done with it).

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

I think the distinction that I'm trying to make here is, simply: I liked him as a character. For what he was, he was well written, I just didn't like who he was written to be. This gets us way off topic, but the NPC's had depth, and could trigger intense emotional responses. In this, they did a fine job of successoring(made up words ftw)BG. Let's face it however, BG will be imitated, but it will never be duplicated. The concept was fresh, at the time, and well done. So well done that anyone that ever truly loved it will never be able to be as happy with another game.

The difference between BG and DA et al is that in BG there was one story to tell, and in DA, there are a lot of stories that they want to tell. The complaint that I have seen the most about the DA Universe is that you're not the main char you were in the last installment. The comparison to Mass Effect ends there, since it's all one guy/gal.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

Yep, I got that.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

So, I finally got DA2 and played it through.

I have to say I found it disappointing.

So many quests around a short main plot, being forced towards taking two handed fighter as best survival option (really, how come a dual -wielding fighter is not available?) and I never felt I had full control of the conflicts.

On that last, that may be a problem with my PC or my understanding of the game system. I never felt I could get a decent overview or set up tactics as well as as in DA Origins.

Perhaps, sometime, someone will take the game engine and build a decent plot and character options around it.

I live in hope.

Re: Dragon Age 2 (Rant included, PG)
 

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Judging from the replies in this thread, I can only assume DA 2 was worth the ticket price. I think I'll just have to pick it up now!

Can't honestly say how relieved I am to be proven wrong from the initial OP! </font>