*Quickly makes a huge donation [img]graemlins/uhoh1.gif[/img] *</font>[/QUOTE]it works :D

Gamespot is more incomplete now than it was before - they killed *all* the free downloads. Now you either *pay* for a high-speed download or *pay* for them to burn it on CD to send it to you. If anything on this site is ever for fee-payers only then im gone. Seriously. Do the special avatar or insignia thing if you want, but any members only areas and I am out of here.

Ditto pop-up ads.

Banners on the other hand wont bother me - Ill even *shudder* click on them all. Which Ive never actually done before.</font>[/QUOTE]Don't worry, I'm not going to make a 'gold access' area or a 'pay only area'. That isn't what we are about..

PS: Gamespot also won't allow you to download ANY DEMOS OR PATCHES free now--it's members only. And these days, Game companies usually don't host their own patches or demos... That is TOTALLY not cool. I shouldn't have to pay a GAMING site for a patch for something that isn't theirs anyway. Either host it or not. You would think that Game Companies would sue over someone like Gamespot for charging to download THEIR product. it's wrong.

BTW, before this goes on any more... can I just repeat that I have NOTHING, Zip, Zero, NADA against the people who like the ideas that I don't like! [img]smile.gif[/img] I like you all... awww, now I'm gonna get mushy.. hey.. wish we could market Ironworks Teddy Bears [img]smile.gif[/img]

[quote]Originally posted by Ziroc:
Absolutely! I'm surprised the game companies don't sue for the income! Geez that's absurd that Gamespot can do that. Do all the places that you download those things from do that now? Or is it just trendy in some?

[ 05-08-2002, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

I think an Ironworks Gaming T-Shirt is a killer idea--I've talked with someone here about that before--who was it? This person did them himself/herself too!

I have a new IW logo I am reworking on now, and I think it would look KILLER on a shirt! Not generic looking either. I even bought some of those 'Iron-on' (pun!!) printable sheets to print the logo out and see how it will look when I am done. I'll take a pic of the Shirt when I get it finished! Should be cool! [img]smile.gif[/img]

That's a good idea - and of course it's possible to delete members, but I don't know if it would actually make a lot of room free on the server, and I don't know if it'd help with the bandwidth problem. But I did wonder why they aren't cleaned out every once in a while - is it just to be able to say there are nearly 8000 members? I mean, there are a LOT of accounts that may have asked a single question last year and never were seen again...
But like I said, I don't think this would help at all with the bandwidth.

I wouldn't mind a banner ad at all, and like Memnoch said, I think we can make it again like we did with the server. I mean, it's not like Ziroc needs unlimited amounts of money, right? So why not donate, all who are capable of it? I am sure we can reach the needed amount.
What I *am* opposed to are monthly donations, elitist systems, a division between those who pay and those that can't. Sorry, but if people can't see that this would create inequality, maybe they should think again. I already think it's ridiculous that people have to come out and say that they couldn't afford it - do you have any idea what that feels like?
But a one-time donation would be manageable for more people, PLUS it would be anonymous, without comparing who can pay the most etc.
I managed the donation for Ziroc's wedding gift as well, I'm sure I can manage another single donation.
But I am dead serious that I would not stay on a forum where people get privileges because they pay the owner. Hell, if I give Dan a nice big cheque, maybe he'll make me immune to being banned?</font>[/QUOTE][img]smile.gif[/img] .

Deleting Members that are inactive wouldn't do a thing but maybe free up 100kb (under a Megabyte). Each record is like 2kb.

Anyway, I have nuked over 500 users in March that haven't posted or logged on since Nov 2001. That was only 500 people too! I was expecting more. but we have already gained all those 'lost' member slots now and surpassed them! WOW! Quick! :D

What kind of printer can you print those with Z? That's a great idea, to test them first. You can get an idea how it looks on the shirt.

HEY! Can we get a peek at the new logo too?! Tell me Choc is in it! LOLOL :D

Wow, lot's of thoughts here! I read all of them, and here are my thoughts of what *I* was thinking of doing:

1. Rely on Donations to help out
2. MAYBE do banner Ads (Many would be Gaming related)
3. Make a Book store/gaming store here (Like Mem said) it would be a link and not a huge ad)

That is really all I have come up with. What I would NEVER do is:

1. Make a 'Pay only' site/area.

I personally HATE that idea, I suggested it as an idea though.. I am clueless beyond 1, 2 and 3's ideas. :D

I agree that pay only or 'gold' access is very BAD. It would create lot's of problems and IW isn't about that..

Thanks to everyone that has posted, keep the ideas coming!

See the thing that sucks is, I have always intended my websites to be 100% free, and I would never make them pay. I would rather just close up.. Seeing all these sites--CNN, Gamespot ect creating pay areas is crappy IMO. I understand they got MUCH bigger bills to pay, but still, I see their sites, with 4 or more banners, pop ups, and overlays, yet STILL they want more. I have always said: "Greed will be their downfall". And look at AOL/TIMEWARNER. Greed. They will be history in 5 years.

Anyway, we are not 'hurting' like most sites, I am lucky to have a friend that runs an ISP that let's me get away with free shit most of the time, but since we're getting larger and eating up bandwidth, I got to help him and to help our bills as well.

I say we stick with Donations for now, and see how it goes.. I think $200-$500 or whatever could work a Month (If all 7000 members were active, we would be on an OC3!!!) [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] (an OC3 is HUGE Bandwidth!)

About T-Shirts:

I think it could be a cool thing.. If you read my previous email, you know that I talked with someone a while back about them, and that I bought some iron-on printable sheets I am going to test out with the NEW Ironworks Logo (2002-2003 Logo). I'll post a pic of it when I have it ironed on :D

PS: Calm down some of you!!! :D All ideas are welcomed too be voiced--doesn't mean I will DO it, but.... [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

If you want, send $1.00 to the 'Choc-a-thon'. [img]graemlins/choc3.gif[/img]
He has asked me to 'super-size' his morning wet food. (HEHEHE) :D :D j/k

Sorry Magik, but that is just not the case, look at me and Epona, she said that this was a place where she could escape and not be singled out, and I, probably along with many others, do that also.
Trust me, if I won the lottery I'd donate money to Ziroc without a second thought, and being young if I can scrape up some cash I will, but I'm really not bothered about having a special rank of any sort.

Ok Cloudy I think I understand where you are coming from now...and I can't really disagree with you, because you do make some sense....Thanks for being a whole lot easier to discuss the issue with than some other who shall remain nameless...course I guess that goes along with you being such a sweetheart.