This is going to get me in a load of trouble with Agility (since I know he'll read it...it'll be fireworks!) I'm asking this since IW is made of such a wide range of ages and experiences...

What is the ethical line between parental responsibility and teen privacy? Now, some of that is obvious (to me). But this is something I am really wondering about...

There is a girl in town. She is Budha's sort of niece (bro-in-law's niece). She has an allegedly well-earned reputation. And A. was 'fresh meat' she set her cap for as soon as she noticed him regardless of the age difference (she's 16, I think, and he's 14) and the family relationship, especially when it became known to her that we wanted her to keep her hands away from our son. There was a *huge* incidence regarding her and him that ended with his being grounded for a month and losing *all* privileges for that time (major loss of trust on our part resulted). His father and I both told him we want him to have nothing to do with her (difficult when the town has 330 ppl, we live a block apart, one school, and technically she's family). I even told her father the same!

A. becomes *extremely* irate when I see them together and I admonish him...yells that I can't choose his friends for him--that he'll be friends with whomever he chooses.

Yesterday he asked to go to a friend's house to play video games. Fool me, I thought 'ok, he's done his time, let him go play'. And I'm sure he did. But his father found a note in the bathroom (in plain sight, I may add) from the girl that said 'I hope you get to go to XXX and XXX's house so I can see you there'. Red lights, sirens shrieking! NO, NO, NO!!! I feel duped and lied to now.

I realize you may think I'm being a restrictive, over-protective mom (that if I hadn't read the note--which his father read first and alerted me--I never would have known his 'personal' business), but I really don't think so. There is more to the situation that I will not divulge out of consideration for A. I ***desperately*** want to trust my son---but can I? My question is this (and particularly to the teens) how far should a parent get into their teen's personal business before you consider it a matter of invasion of privacy/crossing of the line?

I know, Agility. I'm going to catch all manners of hell when you get home. Too bad. At least I care enough to ask for help.

<font color=skyblue>My feelings...

When Mary Elizabeth grows up and is old enough to be engaged in similar activities such as the above mentioned...I expect her to talk to wither her mom or I in a truthful manner on how she feels about this or that. A teenage does not have a large range of understanding on the eternal perspective. They can barely see 1 hour into the future and at the costs of their decisions. Especially when it comes to the opposite sex.
I made alot of foolish mistakes in my teen-hood years, because I had only myself and my other teen friends to talk to. My dad was never home. My mom was a drunk, and didn't listen to my problems. So...I was left to fend for my own. I am surprised I got away with alot of stuff that I did, much to my horror, now.

Yet, when a parent jumps in front of a self righteous teen and treats him/her as a non-thinking child...the teen will explode into a fit of "I am an adult!!" crap.
Yeah...whatever. I thought I was pretty smart back then. I am 26 years old now, and I almost screwed my life up terribly.

As I started mentioning at the beginning, I would want my child to talk to us, as we no longer are parents in thier teen-hood, but more like "ADVISORS". MaryBeth should have no problem coming to one of us and sharing her feelings, then actually listening to our counsel.
I have seen alot of happy kids and teens that talk to thier parents as advisors and counselors, and they are the ones that are the school's best, and can always be trusted by teachers and all that.

I can't say much more now, as I have to go to work.</font>

In my opinion, a parent can't get to involved in there child's private life. If they couldn't what would be the use of parents? They are there to guide children, and therefore, they most often know best.
This won't, of course, apply to *all* parents, but I know you well enough, Garnet, to say that you care about your child.
If you don't think this girl is good for him, that's it. He's 14 years old, he'll have to accept it! He can see her again when he's older..
As for the little 'incident', things like that will always happen, every normal teenager actslike that, but that doesn't mean he should be allowed to see her..
As far as I see it, it means you and Budha are just gonna have to get even more strict. But I don't think grounding is the answer, instead, if he says he's going to a friend's house, call that friends' parents, and ask if she's coming over, and, if you trust these parents, tell them the situation..
This will probarbly stop him from trying to lie to you, 'cause the worst thing for a 14 year old (I speak from my own experience here ;) ) is gor your parents to call your friends' parents about this kinda things..
All in all, you have acted right, and to prevent further tricks, be more even more strict..
And you can never trust a teenager in these things, but that doesn't mean you can't trust them in other issues ;)

I appreciate your answer, Larry. I'd like to think he'd feel free to talk to either one of us--but let's be realistic here. How many boys are going to talk to their old fogey parents about their perceived 'love' interests? IMO, he is flattered immensely by her attentions (duh)...he is a witty, good-looking, intelligent kid in the first flush of early manhood---and immersed in a raging bath of hormones (sorry, couldn't resist stating the obvious :D ). If he truly ONLY wants to be friends with her, we could eventually accept that maybe. BUT I know of this girl and her little notes and tidbits she tells others....and I do not think (hell, I know) she will let the matter end! She regards his 'capture' as a challenge, one she's never had before in this town since most of the parents readily allow their children to sleep with whomever whenever wherever at whatever age! As I have said, the trust factor has dipped drastically, largely (mostly) due to her part in the aforementioned incident! If I'd been her parent, the girl would have beaten and put in a convent (or at the least under *strict* observation). I am very saddened with the situation since I am no longer sure if I can trust him to be truthful regarding her and his whereabouts. And I detest that feeling.

NOTE: A. says she did not show up yesterday at the friend's house. He didn't seem overly upset to find we read the note, but I know it must have hurt him that we didn't trust him. Gods, how I wish......

(EDIT: I just reread this post and I come off sounding as if I'm trying to protect my little boy from some wicked siren! Granted, the situation is regarding *her*, but the issue is of trust, breaking of trust, and how far blind trust should go in regards to parents vs. teens.)

[ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: Garnet FalconDance ]</p>

<font color="plum">Garnet</font>

You have every right to place restrictions on your children and who they see. You have a much deeper well of experience to draw upon than they do and years of wisdom gained from making both good and bad decisions in your life. As <font color="cyan">Larry</font> pointed out, most teenagers simply don't realize all the possible ramifications involved in a situation like this. There are just TOO many things that can happen that they don't anticipate or expect. And - as you said - you have several good reasons for worrying about A. seeing this girl.

<font color="lime">Agility</font>

I know how flattering it can be to have an older girl interested in you, especially at this point in your life. She's older and cooler...and I'm sure she's total babe (sorry, I know my "lingo" is badly out-dated), but you're mom's right about you being a conquest (a reversal of the usual situation where the guy is the one wanting to get the girl). And the sad thing is that...once she has you....she will most likely look for a new challenge.

However, the MOST important thing you have to do now is PROVE to your mom and Budha that they can TRUST you. I'm sorry, dude, but that was a BAAAD move to go to your friends house in hopes of meeting up with this girl. You should've let mom know that this girl MIGHT be there. She may not have let you go (then again, maybe she would have,you never know), but she would know that she could trust you to be honost and up-front with her.
Believe me, it only SEEMS like she and Budha are determined to totally ruin your social life. They only place restrictions on you because they care so much about you. I know it doesn't seem like it, but your mom really does have a good reason for concern here.
Alright, I'll get off my "old fogey high horse" now. Just remember this - if you show respect for your parents and their decisions (even when you disagree with them), then you will EARN their respect (and more personal freedom) MUCH sooner.

Garnet, if your son is anything like I was, you CAN'T stop him from seeing her. Unless you have a handy prison cell in your house. I snuck out windows, oiled hinges, graphited/picked locks, greased weather seals, disabled door barring and noise making contraptions. All over a girl that my parents didn't like. I had multiple car key copies made and would push the car a full block before starting it. You can't imprison someone without a prison. Of course I was a few years older than your son is. I was in the 16-17 range. I don't know that it will make a big difference though. You see, you can't control, you can only guide. Instead of being confrontational, try a distracting approach. Literally find something else for him to do that's just as fun as seeing her. Give him fulfilling activities to participate in. Once you quit confronting him about her, it will take some of the fire out of his boiler. Once you give him alternate things to do, it will further reduce the fire. Always remember to reward his good actions and when he does well. This is even more important than punishing the bad. Work without reward is soon abandoned. You're the adult. Be SMART, not ANGRY!

For the record: I choose to believe he went to his friend's house only to play video games, not in order to see the girl. It was a PS2 game (and quite awesome, evidently, esp. since we have a lowly PS1).

BUT I do wish 1) he'd have told me of *her* intentions and 2) that it wasn't an issue, this to trust him at his word or not. He's a good kid! But I find myself not able to be objective one bit on this matter, and I think this is only aggravating things between him and us.

And, Cerek, she *is* a pretty girl.

Sir Kenyth--thanks so much for giving him more inventive ideas on how to be sneaky! I'm over the initial anger at the first incident (and I was *hot*!) and made sure that he knew it was because of his lying to us (among other things) not because we didn't want him to have a social life. I try to not approach things from a position of anger and unreasonableness--I *was* a teenager at one point, too, you know. But when you are trying to point out the very real possible pitfalls of a situation and all you're faced with in return is an angry teen telling you to basically f*k off and stay the hell out of his personal life (he can do what he wants, etc. ad nauseam) when you know that some tiny part of him *knows* you're right, that you're really not an ogre but are honestly trying to protect him from future hurt......

And he is involved in other things, not that this town has a great deal to offer. But band, Quiz Bowl' (think 'Jeopardy'), concession for ball games, spending time with other family members away from here. His grades have come *way* up, he knows quite a bit about pcs (he and Septfox are demons on these things!) and I brag about him to other family members (probably would embarass him to hear me sometimes :D ).

This is why I posted this. Not to gain validity, but insight. There are quite a few kids his age or thereabouts at IW as well as parents. I figure the only stupid question is the one not asked.....

Garnet... errr.. I don't really know about this one but I sort of agree with Sir Kenyth. I think if you talk to him and say why you don't think it is a good idea then he has had fair warning. It is what I would like my parents to do if I were in that situation. I think that just getting strict about this is probably not going to help as teenagers are really not the kind of people who let the matter lie. I might even go so far as to say that is you think he is going to make a mistake then let him, but be there to help him get over it. And I am sure there is nothing parents like more than saying "I told you so", so maybe if he really is going to make a mistake then he will learn from it. You can but hope, if it turns out that way, that it is for the best.

BTW, completely off topic, I noticed this post of yours in GD the other day saying that your eldest "baby boy" was 19. I didn't have time to reply to it but I found it quite touching as that is how my mother refers to me quite a lot, and I am 19. I found it annoying 2 years ago, and now I find it quite comforting for some reason. I am sure it will go back to being annoying by the time I am 25, but hey! What are mothers for right?

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:
This is going to get me in a load of trouble with Agility (since I know he'll read it...it'll be fireworks!) I'm asking this since IW is made of such a wide range of ages and experiences...

What is the ethical line between parental responsibility and teen privacy? Now, some of that is obvious (to me). But this is something I am really wondering about...

There is a girl in town. She is Budha's sort of niece (bro-in-law's niece). She has an allegedly well-earned reputation. And A. was 'fresh meat' she set her cap for as soon as she noticed him regardless of the age difference (she's 16, I think, and he's 14) and the family relationship, especially when it became known to her that we wanted her to keep her hands away from our son. There was a *huge* incidence regarding her and him that ended with his being grounded for a month and losing *all* privileges for that time (major loss of trust on our part resulted). His father and I both told him we want him to have nothing to do with her (difficult when the town has 330 ppl, we live a block apart, one school, and technically she's family). I even told her father the same!

A. becomes *extremely* irate when I see them together and I admonish him...yells that I can't choose his friends for him--that he'll be friends with whomever he chooses.

Yesterday he asked to go to a friend's house to play video games. Fool me, I thought 'ok, he's done his time, let him go play'. And I'm sure he did. But his father found a note in the bathroom (in plain sight, I may add) from the girl that said 'I hope you get to go to XXX and XXX's house so I can see you there'. Red lights, sirens shrieking! NO, NO, NO!!! I feel duped and lied to now.

I realize you may think I'm being a restrictive, over-protective mom (that if I hadn't read the note--which his father read first and alerted me--I never would have known his 'personal' business), but I really don't think so. There is more to the situation that I will not divulge out of consideration for A. I ***desperately*** want to trust my son---but can I? My question is this (and particularly to the teens) how far should a parent get into their teen's personal business before you consider it a matter of invasion of privacy/crossing of the line?

I know, Agility. I'm going to catch all manners of hell when you get home. Too bad. At least I care enough to ask for help.<hr></blockquote>

IMO a minor child has no rights other than those the parents choose to allow him/her (which is not going to be popular with the children around the forum Im sure) all I can say GF is that A, is damn lucky he isnt my kid. Once he leaves home you can't control who he sees, but while he livves at home, I believe its your duty to do just that. The adults who aren't in the insanity known as puberty are the ones who are supposed to set the rules not immature children.

My buck and a half [img]smile.gif[/img]

Umm Garnet an old maxim comes to mind when you are talking about trust, children and sex....the maxim is "Trust but Verify" just because you trust someone does not mean you believe every word out of their mouths, there are degrees. YOU and Mr. Garnet ARE the respoonsible parties when it comes to Agility sooooo YOU have to take accountability and anything in the house you own and pay the mortgage on is yours, you have the right to search for drugs or illicit materials and what not if you feel you have reason to, no guilt required it is your responsibility to keep him safe...even from himself.