After reading the thread comparing BG and WW, I was relieved that the copies of BG I & II I purchased with my beloved WW will not be a waste of money. Icewind Dale was my other choice but I opted for WW. I would appreciate recommendations for my Christmas list. I have played:

MM 6 & 7 (They get monotonous towards the end and I am not a blaster type)
Krondor (Flat characters; lost interest)
Betrayal at Krondor (Loved the ability to position self in battle and the opening chests was fun for a while but nil character generation and finished it way too quick; the world needed to be bigger)

Mostly, I want character choices; challenges that are realistic (not the ones that are only solveable by nuclear physicists - I am probably misspelling that, but I have done fairly well so far in WW with minimal spoilers); and games set in the sort of the type of world we have here (not to into science fiction or the like but might think about it - there have been moments of PMS when I have been discovered at the arcade shooting zombies with a look of mean satisfaction on my face).

Thanks for the feedback.

Lily

Hi Lily. I may have seen you before

Anyway, the two best RPGs ever, with the possible exception of Ultima 4 & 5...
Fallout 1 & 2.. absolutely brilliant. THe best combat engine in any game, EVER, in my opinion. NO real time, no BS, just strategy. The "thinking man's" combat engine.

On the other end of the spectrum, an action game with RPG elements.. you can't beat System Shock 2. It's one of the best games ever made, in my opinion.. right up there with Civilization, Sam & Max Hit the Road, X-Com UFO Defense, etc. A true classic. Brilliant. Beautiful, meaningful, the BEST interface I have ever seen in a game, period....and available at wal-Mart for only $17.88 !! An absolute steal.

Oh, and Dues Ex also.. well worth your time, a fun game!. Not as good as System Shock 2.. though some will argue that point, System Shock 2 is all about versimilitude, and the unbearable likeness of being.. Dues ex tries to make you the "bad ass" too frequently, with big weapons and clever quips.. in SS2, you are scared, alone, weak, and confused.. the kind of environment that makes the cream rise to the top, and the rest; well, relying on that quick load. Get this damn game!

You may have trouble finding it now but daggerfall is in some respects similar to W&W but single person. great charater development you can become a werewolf (full moon only) or a vampire and get cured if you dont like it. lots of quests Some good some indifferent. Main problem was there was in the end no actual main purpose to the game and the dungeons were very similar in appearnce ie stone walls. If you do get it make sure to download the patch. (W&W player strach heads and mutter "whats a patch" )Dungeonmaster which most people forget started the first person view RPG`s (it was out on the Atari ST then the Amiga as the PC was not powerfull enough at the time)is also very good and I have seen it for download on a couple of the Abandonware sites but not sure if this is legal. If you dont tell I wont.
Some people love the Wizardry series and the old SSI gold box games had good storylines but were a bit hack and slash hopefully POR II should be good and hopefully the daggerfall sucessor morowind which has an editor to be your own DM both should be out by the time you complete BG I & II

I hate Ultima games (especially 4)


Wyv

Wyvern, blasphemy, hating ultima games ! You can't call yourself a true role-player and hate the progenitor of the sagas You might as well claim to hating Bards Tale, or Sim City

have you ever played the Fallout series?

Oh I almost forgot D W Bradleys first foray into a first person game Cybermage. This game was highly underated as evryone was into the doom thing and a storyline, puzzles and charater development in a faintly doom like game (single player first person view) was more than most could get there heads round if you like W&W you should love Cybermage.

I tried, but could never get into daggerfall... the real time combat engine just totally deflated any interest in the game. If I wanted to click madly on pixelized sprites, I would have gone and played Doom!

Okay, let me put it this way, I dislike Lord British Epersonally (having met and talked with him online). That experience may particially have colored my reaction to the games. I played them through at least 7 probably 8. Actually the Ultima games did annoy me a lot, I hated the shrines.

I've played Fallout, liked 1, started 2 but it just didn't grab me. Think it might be a bit too Sci-Fi for Lily.
Like Bard's Tale, played all of them. Played most if not all of the SSI games, liked quite a few of these.
How about Fairy Tale adventure?
Phantasy?
Played Daggerfall and enjoyed much of it. The super large cities and all the people to talk to became too much too easily. Wasn't there a Daggerfall II with some really impossible to navigate dungeons (make Serpent Temple look like a flat grid map).
If I start browsing through my collection of walkthrus I could name so many more but most of them are not available now. There are some old games I wouldn't mind playing again.

Wyv

OK, you need not look any further........the answer to your question is......Ulltimate Wizardry Archives.....Pay special attention to Bane of the Cosmic Forge & Crusaders of the Dark Savant. These two games, are by far, the best CRPG I have ever played. It will be REALLY hard to top the multiple endings of Bane that lead to multiple beginnings of Crusaders. Another REALLY cool feature is that you can migrate your old Bane characters to Crusaders. You even staart the game with some of your old equipment. Holy Avenger and Muramasa blade BABY! The graphics are A LOT outdated. You get the awesome 16 color palette as well as the unparalled realism of the PC speaker. If you really love RPG'ing you will never notice the sound or graphics. Although on a fast system everyone will be on speed. The character development is a much improved version of W&W. My personal favorite is the swag bag. Makes it really hard to drop important items. You roll characters up the same, but you can choose any class you want, as long as you have enough bonus points to qualify. You will play this game for around 6 months, and who knows how long you will play Crusaders. I know where all the items are, and all of the puzzles. It still takes me around 3 months to clear Bane. I never attempted to reclear Crusaders, because that game is just that big. In short...Imagine a perfect version of W&W and you will start to see Bane and Crusaders.

Whew.....Do I love those games or what???

D.W. - Th