You ALL need to get your ass over to Biowares NWN2 forum (Obsidian) and let them KNOW you want it (if you want it) [img]smile.gif[/img]

I am SO PISSED OFF. First, no mounts. Second, no Portraits. NOW FOLKS, NO DM CLIENT!!


Whats next, no damn MONSTERS? And not to mention their GUI looks like a child drew it. God, NWN2 is looking more and more like shit. Obsidian is going to kill this. Don't developers GET IT anymore? Its like they WANT to fail.

Sorry for the bloody rant, but god, what the hell...


Just a heads up. If NWN2 doesn't have a DM client, do not expect ANY Support here for it. No forum for it, nothing. I will have nothing to do with it.

I will simply continue to release new content for NWN1, and my Mod, Escape from Undermountain. NWN2 will die, and NWN1 will keep on growing.

Once again it comes down to Obsidian pushing a half finished game to be realsed to early.

Im betting that not only will their be no DM client but the tooset will be buggy as all hell same with the game.

KOTOR2 Any one ? Another game that Obsidian pushed to early with major bugs.

I would have much preferred both titles to remain with Bioware as the developers.

I still havn't bought KOTOR2 due to all the bugs in the game. Can anyone confirm if they have been fixed yet ?

What is it with game developers these days pushing games out half finished?????

Its like they have a mentality that its ok if its not finished we can patch it later, people will still buy it.

I for one will always wait to buy a game until I know the bugs are fixed.

[ 05-12-2006, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: T-D-C ]

Yeh, I know.. the industry thinks we are now the beta testers..

I saw red flags when they wouldn't release any screenshots or other media. No demo coming either. (Signs they KNOW it sucks). I was thinking the same this morning--god how I wish Bioware was doing NWN2. They wouldn't do this type of thing.. They POLISH their games.

Warning signs are:

When an interviewer asks a question, and the game maker says "We really can't talk about that right now" or is dodging the answer usually means bad news.

No screenshots or media--or if there is, its scarce. BAD sign.

Developer recants on features they stated were in the game. VERY bad news

I asked them to delay it till Spring 2007 if they have to, to get it RIGHT. (Get it right. is that too much to ask? :D )

The DM client was what my builder friend and I were really planning on. He doesn't play much, anymore, too busy building, as I'm sure you can relate to Z. If it's going to be this trashed coming out, might as well not release it at all. I'm really not looking for a single player game.

Yeah, I could care less about Single player content. Hell, I never played any of the NWN, SOU or HoTU content.

I am a creator. I love making thingies.. :D

I just left a scathing little post over there. I'm serious too, I won't buy the game if it doesn't have the dm client on it, and I'll take the better part of 70 members of my guild at Bioware with me. They'd be wanting to see what my friend Tann has done, but w/out a dm client, he won't be doing anything. Choc has quite a few followers as well.

According to one Patrick K. Mills at Obsidian, they do plan to release a DM client, it just wont be shipped with the game.

[ 05-12-2006, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]

Yeah, I read that, the problem is, shipping a NWN's based title w/out the DM Client sucks.

Yeh. 1/3 of the game, MISSING.

I hope they just delay till Spring 2007. Get it right.. (Hope Atari can stay in business that long).

</font>[/QUOTE]Oh god not this trend again. We can then assume the DM client is in no way even 'started' yet and will be half what the NWN 1 client is. Oh well I had looked forward to this game.

Yep true, it sucks.

Okay, I am looking for the thread on Bioware's website for NeverWinter Nights 2 now about the "missing DM Client" and not having any luck finding it. Been telling a few gamers I know (one that came to the store, another who works across the hall at Electronics Boutique Games Canada) about this new revelation. It will definitely rewrite my purchasing priorities in the next few months. I know I have to upgrade (and overhaul) my computer in order to get the latest games working on it, but if NWN 2 won't be supported by those whom I depend on for the majority of my enjoyment, then I may not be slapping down my $100CDN (or however much it will cost) any time too soon. At this rate, I may be satisfied staying with NeverWinter Nights as it is. Sure, I may WANT to get NWN 2, but without community support, it would just stay in my shelf of games I never play. And that shelf has enough really excellent games there already...

(in the dust shelf)
Mistmare
Homeworld: Cataclysm **
Dungeon Keeper Gold
Revenent **
Throne Of Darkness
Earth 2150: The Moon **
Septerra
Need For Speed: Unleashed
Need For Speed: Unleashed 2
Midnight Club II
Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hyde **
and quite a few others
(** = unopened)


I do, however, like this quote
[ 05-12-2006, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: Mozenwrathe ]

I predict they will delay the game to Christmas, and the DM Client will be in.

(A Sept Release is odd)--Its SO close to the biggest buying season, its too hard to resist. Plus, the delay will allow them to finish the DM Client.

I'll support it as long as a DM client is going to be made.

(Check NWN2 Forums gen con area)

WTF??? More proof atari doesn't care to listen to ALL their customers. More proof that Devs need to grow some balls when it comes the dealing with idiotic publishers. How many bad/buggy D&D games is it gonna take to stop the madness?

If the game ships with no DM client, I'll not buy it til it has one.

While I enjoy single player content alot, my most memorable NWN moments have been DM'd games, both as a player and a DM.

*SIGH*

NWN2 tastes like new coke..

we'll just have to see if that is true or not..

untill then, and even after then, we do have NWN, and great community content to work with..

Welcome SHO-VA, hope you enjoy your stay. It's the same old song and dance Chewy. They care about the sales, and getting the money as soon as possible.

thanks for the Welcome [img]smile.gif[/img]

I agree with that robertthebard..

atleast they are being consistant on 2 aspects.

1, they keep cutting features that were in NWN, or we hinted at being in NWN2,

and 2, they keep telling us to wait..

I'd much rather wait, and get a whole game.

I honestly don't care if they delay it till the middle of next year, as long as it:

1. works out of the box
2. has fundamentals like the DM Client which are essential for PW and online roleplay.

KOTOR 2 was a great story but was spoiled for me by a number of bugs (thankfully I didn't have as many as other people had) and by a rushed storyline and incomplete quests. Which was even more annoying as it had the potential to be even better than KOTOR1.

I know that revenue targets drive company behaviours these days (as hitting revenue targets are also related to bonuses) but I hope Atari aren't doing a LucasArts and pressing for a Christmas release if the game's not ready. And if Obsidian are willing to release a substandard product then they deserve to go out of business. There's only so much that the customer will accept before you lose all your brand equity.

I understand and support the need to reach out to the singleplayer market with a great singleplayer game, but they shouldn't do that at the cost of an already established (and won over) multiplayer market segment. It's the MP and gamebuilding aspect which will extend NWN2's product life cycle. Obsidian and Atari can always release fantastic singleplayer expansions to service for the singleplayer market in the future.

Since my exams are done, I popped over to the Bio forums to check out those threads, as well as check out the Vault. From what I can see, the DM client will still be in the game, but may not ship with the game? I don't see that as a huge problem if that's the case. It gives them more time to get it right.

For a large percentage of the players, it's really not a problem. If I followed the pattern I followed with NWN's 1, it wouldn't be too much of a problem for me. I played all three campaigns through at least once, to get a feel for the new content, and to spy out any cool scripts, etc. Talking to the guy that builds Fates last night, he didn't think it was that big a deal either, but I think he's jaded a bit, since he really wants that game. The biggest problem I see is for the accustomed dm's and persistent worlds. Since I'm sure the PW builders have been busy squirreling away cool new scripts, and other content that would carry over, the lack of an initial DM client will put a big pinch on their worlds. It can be scripted around, but man...

I believe the big question that the PW folks are asking at this point is this:

ok, so limited to no DM client, does that meen that there will also be limited to no multiplay as well?

the DM client is such a huge part of multiplay, that it begs that question. it is possible in NWN to multiplay in player mode, but it is impossible to DM in soloplay. overall thats whats freaking people out. Some of the PW have been getting plans together for a PW in NWN2 for over a year now. Some have been putting off updating their NWN worlds, with the idea they would have a viable platform in September with NWN2. I can see why people are upset.

To some the DM client is more important than the OC. Imagine how the OC people would feel if the dev.leeked out, were shipping just the toolset and PW support in september. The OC will come in a patch a few months later. I know it would never happen, but to some of the PW folks, thats just exactly how it feels.

All those plans made by PW teams, thinking they would get the tools they needed to transform their PW from NWN, to NWN2, just got a huge kick in the teeth. The responcess they are getting back aren't helping very much either. They are being told very little as to what exactly is going to be available to them in the release, and that most likely they get to wait another 3-6 months. Imagine if the last chapter of the OC were held of for another 3-6 months.. Imagine the posts on that.

also posted on the bio-nwn2 boards..

While it's not really all that bad, you are pretty close to the truth. 90% of the "calm down, it's not all that bad" voices at Bioware have never cracked open the toolset. The funniest part of all that is that the OC for NWN's was just a showcase for what could be done with the toolset. Hence the extremely low quality of the work. Ok, maybe that's a little harsh, it wasn't that bad, but it sure could have been better. Perspective, as always, is everything. Sooner or later, these single player minded folks will come to realize that NWN's biggest success wasn't through Bioware at all, except that they made and released the toolset. Modders, both from persistent worlds, and those that made strictly sp modules, kept the community a lot more active than the people that went out and bought the game, and maybe the expansions. Time will tell.

And all those people saying calm down and being mean to people that say they want it are probably PLAYING on servers that use the DM client a lot.

I have ghosted people in DM mode and have found LOADS Of things I should change, balancing issues with monsters and bugs. It helps there too!

[ 05-15-2006, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Ziroc ]

Yep. You cannot test a module that you are going to be hosting online without the client. Not thoroughly. There are some things you can only perceive in DM mode that you cannot as a player.

Well...

I bought the expansions only because the modules I wanted to play required them. Heck, if the people who designed the modules didn't need the expansions, people like myself wouldn't either. I remember when the DLA was mentioning that people were going to need all three aspects of NeverWinter Nights back when it still was costly to buy the separate components. Some of the statements made back and forth were in fact pretty harsh - a little too harsh as far as I was concerned. After all, people had just finished spending $50 on the main game, then they were told in order to play this expansion (being done for free), they would have to spend another $30 to $80 (all Canadian prices at the time) for the two expansions. Let us say that really did not go over well. Now, the real benefits of the expansions are made available for people trying it out for the first time at a lower cost than what I myself paid for just the original game. Fair? Not easy to say. Progress? Perhaps, as it got more people playing online and offline - and faster.

So now the question is will those people making those individual modules be the key to the success or the failure of the game? Some people insist it is module makers (single player or multiplayer, factoring in persistent worlds) that will keep the game alive. Others think it will solely be the three-shot players. (Three different characters, same storyline, different methods to beat the game.) In the end, only time and sales will tell. I hope that the game - the single player official campaign - sells the game to the masses. If nothing else, that should inspire the people at Obsidian to release more features and functions for those who demand them. After all, if there are people who are willing to build a house in your name, why not give them the materials to do so? And if those modules made by others effectively promote the game itself, so much the better for Obsidian. They benefit from the work others do for free - sort of like an internet street team.

Yeah, there were some harsh comments. However, everybody got over it. Sometimes the content is just worth it, and in the long run, it's a hell a lot better than EQ. My Martial Arts instructor was into EQ, paying 12.00 a month to play a game that cost him 60.00, not to mention expansions. The community needs to keep that stuff in mind. Just a side question here, was there even a SP mode for EQ? For a comparison, as I pointed out in one of the threads over at Bioware, log into MP mode of NWN's, and check out how many people are logged in playing in one world or another. Those people are playing for free, and there are modules online still for people who never bought any of the expansions. Although I think those are rare now, the last time I remember checking stuff like that, there were like 10 modules, and all the expansions were out. The original game is still driving people to the PC.

the latest news is there wont be a dm client on the disk at release. However the same day as release, a patch will be available for dl, that has a dm client in it. Whether or not the devs can make that happen, has yet to be seen.

I am sure they will be working very hard to put that out there. Given the uproar, the backtracking, and all the discussions, I cannot see this taking the backburner again. If nothing else, Obsidian wants an iron clad single player experience. After that, everything will sell itself. The toolset, the possibility for multiplayer, the ability to customize your character. Without that single player aspect to actually put units into the hands of customers, the rest will technically be meaningless. Sure, a ton of people WANT to play it online, but without the "throwaway" (e.g. play it five times through and then let it sit and grow dust) crowd, the DM Client - complete or not - won't make a difference.

Could it be that because Atari is in such financial trouble -- their stock has plummeted below the parameters by which one may listed on the NY stock exchange -- that Atari is pushing the release of NWN2? Just a thought.

The last time they pushed a company I believe it was one by the name of Troika and the game was The Temple of Elemental Evil.

That's a distinct possibility. You would think they would know better after that fiasco too.

it looks to me as if the main reason for no dm client in the release, is from this:
http://www.nwn2news.net/modules/news...p?storyid=1068

gamespy strikes again. not supprising overall, I always thought gamespy was the worst part of NWN.

It said "unforseen delays" concerning the DM client. So... how do we take this? As a true delay but it will eventually be there or Obsidian speak, i.e., "we'll never implement it butit will keep the wolves at bay"?

Ok, so they are going to release the DM Client as a patch the same day the game comes out. There servers are probably going to be really busy for the first few days.

That's a bit foolish though. Why would they do that?

Mainly because that gives them more time to develop the client. If they'd want it on the disk, production couldn't start until later.

That is kinda BS though. There is a gamedev code plugin you add to the engine, its not like they have to recode the entire thing into NWN2. It sounds like a blame-game. (i.e. they blame someone besides themselves).

Without gamespy, MANY people wouldn't be hooking up and playing NWN. You'd be surprised.

I remember when gamespy was run by 4 people, and then, it was called Quake-spy. Was made for Quake 1. [img]smile.gif[/img] I even registered it.

Don't use it now--as a separate program-- but it's plugin IS in many games now--and it does help.

What I don't get is they said the DM client won't be touched, so why is it missing? If the code is there, and works, so should the gamespy code.


Atari has been hurting for a long time now, and MANY Games in the past year have been rated high, but remember Temple of Elemental Evil? That was a shit game, and people blamed Atari.. lol. Nope, it was the developers. They released crappy/buggy games before with different publishers.

You can't always blame the Publisher. (We shall see what happens with NWN2). Hope all goes well though. I want NWN2 to kick ass! [img]smile.gif[/img]

And they plan a 'Collectors Edition' ?!

lol.. How about in the Collectors version they actually ADD the DM Client.


I just don't get this. If they are gonna release the DM client the day of release, why not just delay the release 3 weeks, and actually get it on the disc? It takes 3 weeks at most to send the gold disc in for replication.

The lead on this project is making some very bad decisions.

That is kinda BS though. There is a gamedev code plugin you add to the engine, its not like they have to recode the entire thing into NWN2. It sounds like a blame-game. (i.e. they blame someone besides themselves).

Without gamespy, MANY people wouldn't be hooking up and playing NWN. You'd be surprised.

I remember when gamespy was run by 4 people, and then, it was called Quake-spy. Was made for Quake 1. [img]smile.gif[/img] I even registered it.

Don't use it now--as a separate program-- but it's plugin IS in many games now--and it does help.

What I don't get is they said the DM client won't be touched, so why is it missing? If the code is there, and works, so should the gamespy code.


Atari has been hurting for a long time now, and MANY Games in the past year have been rated high, but remember Temple of Elemental Evil? That was a shit game, and people blamed Atari.. lol. Nope, it was the developers. They released crappy/buggy games before with different publishers.

You can't always blame the Publisher. (We shall see what happens with NWN2). Hope all goes well though. I want NWN2 to kick ass! [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah but Troika would always insist (even before ToEE was released) that Atari gave them a deadline and wouldn't compromise. The way they kept saying this in interviews would remind me the kid who has been asked by his teacher to produce his homework, but knows it is incomplete. He fumbles around in his bag, feigning a desperate search and commenting on how diffcult his assigment was in an effort to 'ease the blow' until he finally runs out of time and has to take the heat.

When I spotted these comments by Troika in the pre-release interviews I knew to never buy the game as it would be a mish-mash of bugs and code. They openly told people how pushy Atari were about getting their product out on the shelves despite their admittance that it was laden with bugs. Since then I avoid Atari as much as I can. I feel even NWN's suffered at their hands but Bioware saved their asses and managed to shelter the game for us. That is the only time I would buy another of their games, if it held the D&D title and was being designed by someone who actually cared about it.

Troika was a very poor company IMO. Their art in-game is some of the worst I have seen. (VERY grainy). I hate that look.

(Fallout looked like this too)

Just didn't like their artists style. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I would have worked before 3D video cards came out.. but blah...

I'm not saying that graphics are more important than story (Fallout had a killer story), but when a game has poor graphics, it does tend to drag on the other aspects of the game. [img]smile.gif[/img]