For a large percentage of the players, it's really not a problem. If I followed the pattern I followed with NWN's 1, it wouldn't be too much of a problem for me. I played all three campaigns through at least once, to get a feel for the new content, and to spy out any cool scripts, etc. Talking to the guy that builds Fates last night, he didn't think it was that big a deal either, but I think he's jaded a bit, since he really wants that game. The biggest problem I see is for the accustomed dm's and persistent worlds. Since I'm sure the PW builders have been busy squirreling away cool new scripts, and other content that would carry over, the lack of an initial DM client will put a big pinch on their worlds. It can be scripted around, but man...

I believe the big question that the PW folks are asking at this point is this:

ok, so limited to no DM client, does that meen that there will also be limited to no multiplay as well?

the DM client is such a huge part of multiplay, that it begs that question. it is possible in NWN to multiplay in player mode, but it is impossible to DM in soloplay. overall thats whats freaking people out. Some of the PW have been getting plans together for a PW in NWN2 for over a year now. Some have been putting off updating their NWN worlds, with the idea they would have a viable platform in September with NWN2. I can see why people are upset.

To some the DM client is more important than the OC. Imagine how the OC people would feel if the dev.leeked out, were shipping just the toolset and PW support in september. The OC will come in a patch a few months later. I know it would never happen, but to some of the PW folks, thats just exactly how it feels.

All those plans made by PW teams, thinking they would get the tools they needed to transform their PW from NWN, to NWN2, just got a huge kick in the teeth. The responcess they are getting back aren't helping very much either. They are being told very little as to what exactly is going to be available to them in the release, and that most likely they get to wait another 3-6 months. Imagine if the last chapter of the OC were held of for another 3-6 months.. Imagine the posts on that.

also posted on the bio-nwn2 boards..

While it's not really all that bad, you are pretty close to the truth. 90% of the "calm down, it's not all that bad" voices at Bioware have never cracked open the toolset. The funniest part of all that is that the OC for NWN's was just a showcase for what could be done with the toolset. Hence the extremely low quality of the work. Ok, maybe that's a little harsh, it wasn't that bad, but it sure could have been better. Perspective, as always, is everything. Sooner or later, these single player minded folks will come to realize that NWN's biggest success wasn't through Bioware at all, except that they made and released the toolset. Modders, both from persistent worlds, and those that made strictly sp modules, kept the community a lot more active than the people that went out and bought the game, and maybe the expansions. Time will tell.

And all those people saying calm down and being mean to people that say they want it are probably PLAYING on servers that use the DM client a lot.

I have ghosted people in DM mode and have found LOADS Of things I should change, balancing issues with monsters and bugs. It helps there too!

[ 05-15-2006, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Ziroc ]

Yep. You cannot test a module that you are going to be hosting online without the client. Not thoroughly. There are some things you can only perceive in DM mode that you cannot as a player.

Well...

I bought the expansions only because the modules I wanted to play required them. Heck, if the people who designed the modules didn't need the expansions, people like myself wouldn't either. I remember when the DLA was mentioning that people were going to need all three aspects of NeverWinter Nights back when it still was costly to buy the separate components. Some of the statements made back and forth were in fact pretty harsh - a little too harsh as far as I was concerned. After all, people had just finished spending $50 on the main game, then they were told in order to play this expansion (being done for free), they would have to spend another $30 to $80 (all Canadian prices at the time) for the two expansions. Let us say that really did not go over well. Now, the real benefits of the expansions are made available for people trying it out for the first time at a lower cost than what I myself paid for just the original game. Fair? Not easy to say. Progress? Perhaps, as it got more people playing online and offline - and faster.

So now the question is will those people making those individual modules be the key to the success or the failure of the game? Some people insist it is module makers (single player or multiplayer, factoring in persistent worlds) that will keep the game alive. Others think it will solely be the three-shot players. (Three different characters, same storyline, different methods to beat the game.) In the end, only time and sales will tell. I hope that the game - the single player official campaign - sells the game to the masses. If nothing else, that should inspire the people at Obsidian to release more features and functions for those who demand them. After all, if there are people who are willing to build a house in your name, why not give them the materials to do so? And if those modules made by others effectively promote the game itself, so much the better for Obsidian. They benefit from the work others do for free - sort of like an internet street team.

Yeah, there were some harsh comments. However, everybody got over it. Sometimes the content is just worth it, and in the long run, it's a hell a lot better than EQ. My Martial Arts instructor was into EQ, paying 12.00 a month to play a game that cost him 60.00, not to mention expansions. The community needs to keep that stuff in mind. Just a side question here, was there even a SP mode for EQ? For a comparison, as I pointed out in one of the threads over at Bioware, log into MP mode of NWN's, and check out how many people are logged in playing in one world or another. Those people are playing for free, and there are modules online still for people who never bought any of the expansions. Although I think those are rare now, the last time I remember checking stuff like that, there were like 10 modules, and all the expansions were out. The original game is still driving people to the PC.

the latest news is there wont be a dm client on the disk at release. However the same day as release, a patch will be available for dl, that has a dm client in it. Whether or not the devs can make that happen, has yet to be seen.

I am sure they will be working very hard to put that out there. Given the uproar, the backtracking, and all the discussions, I cannot see this taking the backburner again. If nothing else, Obsidian wants an iron clad single player experience. After that, everything will sell itself. The toolset, the possibility for multiplayer, the ability to customize your character. Without that single player aspect to actually put units into the hands of customers, the rest will technically be meaningless. Sure, a ton of people WANT to play it online, but without the "throwaway" (e.g. play it five times through and then let it sit and grow dust) crowd, the DM Client - complete or not - won't make a difference.

Could it be that because Atari is in such financial trouble -- their stock has plummeted below the parameters by which one may listed on the NY stock exchange -- that Atari is pushing the release of NWN2? Just a thought.

The last time they pushed a company I believe it was one by the name of Troika and the game was The Temple of Elemental Evil.