Ironworks Gaming Forum - Common Sense Says Major Hasan Was a Terrorist

Ironworks Gaming Forum (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/index.php)

- General Discussion (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=36)

- - Common Sense Says Major Hasan Was a Terrorist (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101161)

Common Sense Says Major Hasan Was a Terrorist

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ist_99110.html

(Edit: Luvian)
Hey Felix. Please stop spamming the board with whole articles. If you want to bring something here for discussion that's great, but then give us a link and post your own comments. You're not a spambot as far as I know. Or are you? http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/...ons/icon16.gif

Re: Common Sense Says Major Hasan Was a Terrorist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin (Post 1235272)

Articles that make *YOU* quiver, makes me a spam bot huh?

I've got your number!

Re: Common Sense Says Major Hasan Was a Terrorist

G'day Felix. Actually, as someone who doesn't get involved in these things and could care less what political persuasion you guys are - this something that has been an issue of discussion in the mod room for the last little while. I appreciate your efforts to stimulate discussion (which is badly needed) so don't take this personally as your intent is fine, but maybe there's an issue with the way you're doing it. Posting links to articles with little comment or discussion in the opening post doesn't really encourage people to initiate a dialogue.

If I could make a suggestion (this is what I usually do when I post articles) - post snippets of the article, along with the link, with the key points that you want to highlight and then provide some commentary on that to try and stimulate discussion. I think that will work.

For example, from your link, I might do something like this:

Quote:

"Around 2004, Major Hasan started feeling disgruntled about the Army, relatives said. He described anti-Muslim harassment and sought legal advice, possibly from an Army lawyer, abut getting a discharge."

"Federal authorities were looking into whether there was any interaction between Mr. Hasan and an American-born imam known for giving fiery speeches at a mosque in Northern Virginia that Mr. Hasan attended in 2001. Mr. Hasan attended the Dar Al-Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church, Va., when Anwar Al-Awlaki was the imam there, but it is not clear what influence Mr. Awlaki's rhetoric may have had on Mr. Hasan. "

"During his time at Walter Reed and the uniformed Services University, Major Hasan also became increasingly vocal in his opposition to the wars. He knew much about the harsh realities of combat from having counseled returning soldiers, and he was deeply concerned about having to deploy. But over the past five years, he also began openly opposing the wars on religious grounds."

"A former classmate in the master's degree program said Major Hasan gave a PowerPoint presentation about a year ago in an environmental health seminar titled, 'Why the War on Terror Is a War on Islam.'"

"But he was still wrestling with the quandary of being a Muslim officer in an Army fighting other Muslims. He invited Osman Danquah, the co-founder of the mosque, to dinner at Ryan's restaurant and asked him how he should counsel young Muslim soldiers who might have objections to the war."

~

"The imam whom Major Hasan made contact with is an American citizen born in New Mexico to Yemeni parents. He wrote on Monday on his English-language Web site that Major Hasan was 'a hero.' The cleric said, 'He is a man of conscience who could not bear living the contradiction of being a Muslim and serving in an army that is fighting against his own people'"

Finally, the same Times article made the point that the radical imam lied with his comments on prior terrorist acts:

"After the Sept. 11 attacks, Mr. Awlaki was quoted as disapproving of such violence and was portrayed as a moderate figure who might provide a bridge between Islam and Western democracies. But since leaving the United States in 2002 for London and later Yemen, Mr. Awlaki has become, through his Web site, www.anwar-alawlaki.com, a prominent proponent of militant Islam."

He surely is not the only terrorist to similarly so lie.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ist_99110.html

Then post some commentary on this to "jump start" the discussion. Try not to make it too inflammatory because then we don't have discussion in the thread - people from the "other side" will come in and you'll have your usual entrenched positions and people probably won't even read your link.

As another example, your link brings up some interesting points that can be debated in a rational, vigorous, passionate yet respectful manner (I don't think any of those words are mutually exclusive):

what are the challenges facing Muslim soldiers fighting for the US in Muslim countries, against fellow Muslims, today?
is the above an excuse to avoid fighting those wars and those groups and "picking and choosing" who to fight? Didn't they know the deal when they signed up?
how can we support these Muslim soldiers who may well be proud to be Americans but at the same time are uncomfortable fighting on religious grounds? should we support them?
how defining is the link between this radical imam and Hasan?
if someone calls a person who killed 13 people and wounded scores more a "hero", how does that not make him (the person making the hero comment) a terrorist?
should we kick all Muslims out of the military, the way that many Japanese Americans were interred during WWII? After all, how can we trust them if they consider their religion more important than their country?

Just a few of the many paths this discourse can take, if you but encourage it in a rational, vigorous, passionate yet respectful manner.

Good luck mate :)

Re: Common Sense Says Major Hasan Was a Terrorist

<font color=plum>I think it is silly that a member here would be "corrected" for posting an article as a thread starter. To be perfectly blunt, it isn't like the General Discussion section is being overrun with posts in the first place. And the lack of serious discussions here echoes loudly in it's silence.

When I first joined IW, there were times when members were virtually having "real time" discussions because the posts came so fast in a hot topic. Now, the forum goes for days (and sometimes weeks) without anything more meaningful than the new Joke of the Day being posted.

Personally, I am far more likely to join a discussion when the article is posted rather than having to follow a link to discover the context of the posters comments before I can begin the conversation.</font>

Re: Common Sense Says Major Hasan Was a Terrorist

<font color=plum>Now that the pent-up rant is taken care of, I'll move on to the article in question.

I think it is absolutely ludicrous that anyone could call Major Hassan a "hero" for his actions and I agree such language IS terroristic. Major Hassan attacked military and civilian personnel. By definition, his act was one of terrorism.

I do agree that Muslims in the military should be allowed to "opt out" based on their religious beliefs. But the article makes a good point that Muslims don't have any trouble killing each other - even on religious holidays - on their own. Still, if a soldier doesn't feel he can fulfill his sworn duty to protect, honor and defend this country and their fellow soldiers, then they don't need to be in the military and should be given an option to leave.</font>

Re: Common Sense Says Major Hasan Was a Terrorist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerek (Post 1235303)

Just three points Cerek:

1) It is ludicrous for anyone to call him a hero from "your viewpoint". From other viewpoints he would be considered a hero. I recall a time when terrorists were bombing London on a regular basis. These terrorists (from my viewpoint) were being funded by (amongst others) US citizens, who considered them to be "freedom fighters". In fact the US refused to extradite men accused of murdering policemen because the actions were "political". I suspect it was more to do with garnering the votes of the Irish American lobby.

2) It could be said that "The United States, The United Kingdom and their NATO allies attacked military and civilian personnel." Is this terrorism? By many definitions it is. (Not by mine I might add)

3) "By definition, his act was one of terrorism". That is true of the definition of terrorism that you choose to use. In fact there are hundreds of definitions, the only thing that they seem to have in common is "the use of violence or the threat of violence"

Personally I'm sure it was terrorism.

Donut

Re: Common Sense Says Major Hasan Was a Terrorist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memnoch (Post 1235291)

G'day Memnoch - long time no piss take! Over the Ashes humiliation yet? Now I hear the Aussie cycling team have thrown in the towel!

Anyways! it's sad to see that there is not a lot of discussion here anymore. I recall when I left it was because the overzealous moderators would stomp you with a title of "anti-american" if you had the temerity to suggest a dislike for Apple Pie. Perhaps the pendulum has swung back too far in the opposite direction.

Just in case anyone is unsure - I changed my name by deed poll from Donut to Lanesra.

Re: Common Sense Says Major Hasan Was a Terrorist

Lol common sense! Sounds more like simplistic thinking, along the lines of Muslim+ Commits murder = terrorism.

Common sense dictates we get all the facts before jumping to conclusions.

Common sense also says every act of violence is an act of terrorism, because terror is one of the effects of violence, everytime.

Anyway so was this terrorism? I say who cares?!?!?

First off- It's giving sick murderers even more publicity, which is exactly what they want. If it wasn't "terrorism" before, al queda wants you to think it is now.

Second, It's a semantics game. Calling it terrorism make it easier to fear-monger and it's easy to understand the sensationalistic appeal of the label.

Third, but most important it deflects attention from the more obvious real problem, which is an epidemic of mass-murders where the killer used a handgun(s).

Re: Common Sense Says Major Hasan Was a Terrorist

Agreed. Not really enough to enough justify a discussion. IMO he was a terrorist the moment he started terrorizing innocent people. But then, there is no sure definition of a terrorist as it stands today. I guess in this context a terrorist is supposed to be someone who prays before they kill people? So the rest of the mass murderers need to remember not to pray beforehand (at least out loud) so they can avoid that label.

To speak to the moderator's points, I agree and have said so more than once. Long articles that we all well know have one intention, only serve to hurt our eyes. I'll take a slow forum any day rather than being super-crit with the power of copy & paste every time I open a thread - which naturally contains no opinions, thoughts or anything constructive.

Like I said, one intent: To forward a political viewpoint, albeit, a severely warped one at that. But of course, we all know we're talking to a wall here. Pun intended.:D

Re: Common Sense Says Major Hasan Was a Terrorist

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior (Post 1235316)

I think associating terrorism to religion(any religion) wouldn't be the politically correct thing to do. There's no requirement to be of religious background, I'm sure.

As for what makes one a terrorist, I think we should just think of the term. If someone does horrible deeds in order to spread mass-panic in regular people, I'd say that qualifies as terrorism, prayers or no prayers.

A person gunning down a dozen people out of personal spite and hatred for humanity, on the other hand, would not be strictly terrorism in my mind. Terrorism requires an ulterior motive or organized background, in my opinion. Otherwise you're just a psychotic mass murderer(which terrorists in turn can very well be, i guess..)