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-   -   London riots (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102083)

John D Harris 08-10-2011 12:13 PM

Re: London riots
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Micah Foehammer (Post 1246846)
Might want to wait for the Police Inquest report on this JD. BBC is reporting the following:

No evidence as yet that the gun was fired.
No mention of a gang/drug link.
Duggan's firearm was NOT a replica and was illegal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14459516

I'm going to wait for a few more facts to come in.

That's probibly a good Idea, to wait, things happened and are happening pretty fast. What I had read was from the first report, and just passing it on. I've since seen and read several that mentioned drug/gang links, and a later report that he didn't fire, or that they couldn't find a gun. So waiting for the Offical Inquest looks like a real good idea.

Memnoch 08-10-2011 02:40 PM

Re: London riots
 
People are starting to stick the boot into the Poms. Here's an opinion piece from Australia.

Quote:

Widespread policy failures have bred a feral British underclass

Paul Sheehan
August 11, 2011 - 12:20AM

Piccadilly Circus. Last year. Late afternoon. Packed streets. A young man, English, white, skinny, comes up to me and asks for money.

I shake my head and say just one word: ''No.''

His eyes narrow and he responds: ''Foreign c---.''

Why did it take so long for the menace within Britain to manifest itself more clearly? There are many places in many English cities to which I do not want to go and my friends who live in Britain do not want to go.

Places where the British underclass has incubated over generations of failed policy, behind inviolate barriers of class and social immobility, and home to a feral, fertile, fourth-generation welfare population.

Compared with its European peer group, Britain is off the charts on many measures of social dysfunction. Its rate of teenage pregnancy is almost three times the average for the other large advanced economies in western Europe - Germany, France, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands.

According to the European Commission, Britain has the highest number of violent crimes per capita in western Europe, and far more than its peer group of large economies.

Britain was the most violent nation in western Europe when it had a Labour government that was debasing the Treasury with social spending. So this violence goes much deeper than the spending cuts made by the coalition government digging Britain out from under a debt mountain.

One young friend, currently visiting from Scotland, where she attends university, told me she avoids the ''neds'' that plague the country. I'd never heard the term. It means ''no education delinquents''.

In many ways, the violence on the streets of British cities is no more than a new variation on an old theme. How long have English and Scottish football fans been feared around Europe for the violence they brought to games? Decades.

I've seen more violence and felt more menace attending half a dozen big football matches in England and Scotland than I've ever seen attending league, union and gridiron matches in Australia and the US.

Where, you might ask, are the parents of the young men in hoodies who have been goading police, looting stores and throwing bottles at ambulances in front of TV cameras? Why do the police look so tentative and impotent in the face of provocation? Why is the Home Secretary banging on about police work being about ''consent''? This is not just a social failure, it is a policy failure.

This pot has been simmering for a long time. The Coalition government inherited a mess from Gordon Brown. Thirteen years of big-spending Labour governments under Tony Blair and Brown, at a time when they should have been weather-proofing the budget during growth years, left Britain running a budget deficit comparable with that of Greece. The coalition inherited Britain's largest budget deficit and national debt outside wartime, driven by social spending which perpetuated a welfare economy.

Prime Minister David Cameron's coalition has since ground the budget deficit down from 10.4 per cent of GDP to about 8.3 per cent this financial year, and held Britain's sovereign debt to 77 per cent of GDP (compared with 2 per cent for Australia and 100 per cent for the US), but the stress of such necessary discipline is showing.

Much is made of the income inequality and social division in Britain, and it is real and unhealthy. But so, too, is the culture of welfare dependency.

A genuine attempt to break the destructive cycle is now under way by a former leader of the Tories, Iain Duncan Smith, in his role as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions.

He has committed to ending a destructive cycle where the poor face huge penalties for trying to get off benefits and into work.

In his key policy speech in May he said: ''A system that was originally designed to help support the poorest in society is now trapping them in the very condition it was supposed to alleviate. Instead of helping, a deeply unfair benefits system too often writes people off.

''The proportion of people parked on inactive benefits has almost tripled in the past 30 years to 41 per cent of the inactive working age population. That is a tragedy.''

It is also one of the root causes of the moral vacuum that burned a hole in Britain this week.

This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...810-1imq6.html

SpiritWarrior 08-10-2011 04:31 PM

Re: London riots
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Memnoch (Post 1246868)
People are starting to stick the boot into the Poms. Here's an opinion piece from Australia.

Good article, very true imo.

John D Harris 08-11-2011 11:05 AM

Re: London riots
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior (Post 1246871)
Good article, very true imo.

Do you realize what the writer is saying... he's saying it's the big government nanny state giving stuff away to folks and them expecting it, that is the underlying problem.... Sounds exactly like what the Tea Party and Glenn Beck have been saying

Azred 08-11-2011 12:23 PM

Re: London riots
 
That is exactly where I was going, except John typed faster than I did.

If the United States continues on the path it currently is, we can see clearly where we will end up in 30 years by looking at Great Britain right now. If you see your neighbor making a horrible mistake and the consequences of that mistake, why on Earth would you want to make the same mistake?

The Nanny State may, in its beginning, free people from their cell of poverty, but it also strengthens and makes the prison more secure--they are left with the illusion of freedom, not the actuality.

SpiritWarrior 08-11-2011 01:26 PM

Re: London riots
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John D Harris (Post 1246877)
Do you realize what the writer is saying... he's saying it's the big government nanny state giving stuff away to folks and them expecting it, that is the underlying problem.... Sounds exactly like what the Tea Party and Glenn Beck have been saying

That the world is ending and he wants to pay absolutely no taxes whatsoever between now and then?
At what point will we see them switch to gold instead of GBP?

Chewbacca 08-11-2011 02:35 PM

Re: London riots
 
Blaming the government for the actions of individuals. I find that viewpoint to be erroneous.

Hate to tell y'all but the "tea party" wing of the GOP has grown to be chocked-full of nanny statists and border-line theocrats. Many of those folks in the GOP simply jumped on the band-wagon getting the most press.

Azred 08-11-2011 03:56 PM

Re: London riots
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewbacca (Post 1246883)
Hate to tell y'all but the "tea party" wing of the GOP has grown to be chocked-full of nanny statists and border-line theocrats. Many of those folks in the GOP simply jumped on the band-wagon getting the most press.

What color is the sky on your planet? Here on Earth the sky is blue.

The Tea Party has three problems at this time: 1) insufficient membership, 2) most of them are new so they have no political clout, and 3) no formal organization through which to further their goals.

There are currently no theocrats in Washington, D.C. Tea Party folks do not support the Nanny State; quite the contrary, if given the ability to do so many of them would quickly and gladly dismantle the Nanny State in its entirety.

Now....back to the riots in London.

I don't live in England so I can't say for certain if these folks really have anything about which to riot. I can't think that life there is in such a poor state that only one action kicks off a riot. They aren't being oppressed overtly...they aren't told how to dress or what to eat...they aren't forced to listen to or read only government propaganda...there aren't people starving by the thousands while some form of aristocracy blithely ignores their suffering...etc.

So why are people rioting? Because police shot a guy? If that were cause for a riot we would have them all the time here.

SpiritWarrior 08-11-2011 06:20 PM

Re: London riots
 
Omg if you want a good laugh look at the teaparty interviews on Youtube. Another issue is their obvious lack of education. Many have no idea what they're protesting. Worse, the ones who say they do sport signs that read things like "keep your government hands of my medicare", lol. I mean, granted if medicare is the issue for them chances are they are over 65 and get a pass for being doddering old people. Still, funny to watch.

SpiritWarrior 08-11-2011 06:26 PM

Re: London riots
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Azred (Post 1246885)

So why are people rioting? Because police shot a guy? If that were cause for a riot we would have them all the time here.

It's very different in England. Here in the US rioters would be scared of getting shot by police. In the UK cops don't carry guns. I think if this happen in NY right now the military would be involved already and everyone would be locked down.

Also, these are kids who loiter around the streets all day and night. In the UK curfews aren't enforced like in the US. If you're walking the streets at night with your mates cops won't stop you unless you're commiting a crime. In the USA you will be stopped if you look under 18 I think? And these people have no cause - they're just hooligans looking for free tv's and destruction. How do I know? Because i'm ashamed to say those are the people I used to hang with growing up. Out of their minds teenagers.


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