Something I thought about over ten years ago, and recently pondered.

Should America, Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, and possibly South Africa unite as THE UNION OF ANGLICA?

What about just America, Australia, Canada and New Zealand?

What would be the pro's and the cons?

The non-English speaking world often see's the English speaking world as a bloc anyway.

It was the TRAIN video clip (of all things) that reignited this question for me. I assumed it to be shot in California. It had a US, west coast feel and look to it.

It was shot in Australia, in Sydney, my home town.

If the cultures are so similar, no more different than say El Paso culture to Boston culture. Would it be impossible?

It would mean Australians could actually vote for or against a person that impacts their lives incredibly - The US president.

Then again maybe not. The countries have pronounced differences also. Healthcare and welfare for starters. (The US is frightening in that regard)

I don't know.

So I'm asking some of you guys.

What do you think?

This is a good topic Yorick.

IMO, it wont happen until I am dead, mainly because there is too much anti-Australian and anti-American sentiment. I think that if we want to be a big country which attacks terrorists, then we should go live in America. I dont want Bush for a president. Heck I dont even want a president. Our Prime Minister is bad enough as it is.

Sure the economic benefits would be good for all the countries, but New Zealand would certainly be absorbed to the US pretty quick. We would lose our identity, which is one of the few things we do own.

And we would have to allow nuclear power plants on our land and nuclear ships in our oceans. Which arent allowed now.

NUCLEAR-FREE NZ!

[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Scholarcs ]</p>

I vote yes. Sheaf would be so much cheaper...

Well it wont be anytime soon, first thing whos going to be leader, big argument there and just getting politicians to surrender any power is tough. Maybe over 50 years or so, sort of like the european union. Its an interesting idea but I think an alliance has to be based upon more than a language, say a set of policys or economics with a combination of military planning.

Remember what happened in the 1980's with NZ and the ANZUS treaty. We sort of got expelled so we were sort of out of the treaty, so take the Z out and see what you get! (my history teacher told me that).

Hi Yorick, good thread.

Although Scholarcs talks about anti-American sentiment, there is a split in England about our involvement in Europe. Some of that is due to those who think England should be able to stand alone (they forget that the Empire is gone, poor things). Other business interests are much more in favour of throwing their lot in with the US, hence their anti-Europe stance. They live in the modern world enough to realise that the British economy cannot stand alone in the Global Village (especially since most of our industry has been decimated over the last 20 years), but want to go 'Anglica' as Yorick says.

The media is used to try to whip up people's fears about going into Europe by telling us we will be ruled from Brussels, we will all have to speak German, and the Queen's Head will no longer be on our currency, but there is an agenda behind this - we have to go one way or the other and throw our lot in with Europe or America.

Personally, I am very dubious about both. This is not because I am under any delusion about the strength of the British economy, but simply because the agenda is set by big business - who at the end of the day will make sure that whatever happens works in their favour. And that usually means shitting on the rest of the population.

I think it would be a cool idea, but I wonder what benefits it would bring? What would it give us that we don't have now? Would it bring economic stability or economic chaos? Would it make us more militarily secure? Do we need to be more militarily secure?

The way I look at it is that it would be a tremendous effort. It would be a monumental undertaking, and for what good?

I am definately in favour if it means that as a bloc we get computer game releases on the same date (hate that 2-3 month wait). It would also put a wider meaning to the term "World Series" :D .

So here's the idea. Canada and Australia already have seperate states. If they joined, they would each still be states. That is, if Australia joined with the United States, then be would be 57 or 58 states, not 51.

The benefits? Well freedom of movement for a start. All those British who long for Sydneys sunny skies, or Americans who want to live with lower crime and healthier air etc. wouldn't need to fit into the immigration 'points system' Australia has.

The entertainment industries of America and Australia has been cross fertilising for a while now. (Aussies all over U.S. TV, U.S. productions like The Matrix, Xena etc. made in Australia and New Zealand) That would be easier.

American companies could have outlets within cooee of developing markets in South East Asia, by setting up shop in say Darwin easier.

I don't know what other benefits there would be. Any suggestions?

Greater political and economic unity?

I think for Australia and New Zealand it's quite important in the face of The European Union, an Asian bloc forming, and talk of an African bloc. Where would Australia latch onto? Asia? There is resistance from nations like Malaysia to Australias involvement in the region even now.

For America, would they join a latin American bloc, while England joins Europe?

How much does geography play in unity, and how much language and shared origins?

As Epona noted there are strong reservations in England about grafting into Europe, and New Zealand still has hangups from the ANZUS days, despite there being a movement (which Russel Crowe is a part of) that seeks New Zealand unification with Australia.


Every Canadian I meet though, has high regard for the Commonwealth. In America, the many Canadians I've met feel more affinity with me - another citizen from the Commonwealth - than they do Americans. Something I found unusual given the geography factor, and something which leads me to believe that shared origins are quite powerful.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yorick:

Every Canadian I meet though, has high regard for the Commonwealth. In America, the many Canadians I've met feel more affinity with me - another citizen from the Commonwealth - than they do Americans. Something I found unusual given the geography factor, and something which leads me to believe that shared origins are quite powerful.<hr></blockquote>

Its true! I feel more of affinity with many commonwealth countries citizens though i am at a loss to put a defined 'why' to it.

With Canada i have heard talk in the papers and from the people about how soon enough maybe within ten years we will begin to use american cash... I don't know if that will happen or not in ten years but i do think it is probably inevitable.

Whose laws would govern in this amalgamation Yorick?

I for one dont want the american system for my country. At least some of it. I for one like my Canada with gun control. No guns is the way to go and to hell with the right to bear arms says I!