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ElfBane 02-15-2010 11:24 AM

DAO NPC alignments and thoughts in general--PLOT SPOILERS!
 
PLOT SPOILERS WITHIN!!









Thoughts on NPC’s

Morrigan—I tried all game to figure out her “alignment”. I thought at first she was very Druid-like. She seemed to have some desire for ‘balance’ that escaped me. She was very hard to get to know, especially early in the game…it seemed that no matter what dialog option you used, she always disapproved (I play neutral to good option PC’s, so the evil/jerk dialog options were not tried). Later in the game, after liberal doses of gifts and bumping off Flemeth, she became more “agreeable”…this happened shortly before HER agenda became apparent. After the “sire a kid with the soul of an Old God” encounter, I decided she was Neutral Evil. Overall an enjoyable NPC. She has a pedantic sexy voice (is that possible?), and eyes you can get lost in. Is it a coincidence she has the name of a Celtic goddess?

Leliana—Very easy to get to know. Just play nice long enough and she will play nice back. I don’t like the cleric/thief combo, though, so my next run will be as a rogue (I never trusted Zevran and hardly used him). I didn’t really like her as my thief option, but unless the PC is a rogue, you’re kinda forced into using her. Well rounded NPC (pun intended)…Neutral Good, with a little Chaotic thrown in because of being a Bard.

Alistair—Typical heroic romance ‘good guy’. Very much like the Arthur legends. Neutral to Lawful Good.

Oghren—Stereotypical fantasy dwarf…the drunken brawler. Lawful Neutral to Neutral Good…a little Chaotic thrown in because of the Berserker.

Shale—Very useful Tank. Hard to read, but I’ll go with True Neutral.

Wynne—My aunt. Very useful in Dragon fights. Other than that I hardly used her because of too many mages (Morrigan and I). Lawful Good.

Zevran—Never trusted him, so I hardly used him. Strikes me as a character that does bad (or good) things solely because of money…a typical Neutral Evil alignment.

Dog—This is a joke right?

Sten—The Noble Savage. Good to have in a fight. His Cunari culture makes large demands on their social behavior,,,so I think he is Lawful Neutral.

Loghain Mac Tir—This guy was dead as soon as I had him in my power, so I never traveled or had a beer with the man. I will say this, he must be mad. How can someone endanger his daughter’s dynastic rights??? Then do his best to alienate the nobility??? When there is a Blight coming? He is classic Chaotic Evil in his “mad” phase. What he was like before the insanity set in I have no idea.

Anora—Comes across as very calculating and consumed with ambition. She’s probably really pissed at her father for mucking up the whole dynastic setup. She seems very concerned that things are done “legally” also. For this I think she is Lawful Evil.

Thoughts in General

Dwarves—I really like the way Bioware treated the race of Dwarves. Bioware brings them across as a people with cares and concerns and everyday lives. And… Praise The Gods…Bioware didn’t give Dwarven women beards! Then they give you Oghren, the stereotypical drunken brawler…go figure!

Elves—Not so good with Elves though. Bioware makes them effete and oddly dainty. I also CANNOT understand why the Elf race would put up with enslavement or being forced into ghettos. I also didn’t like the whole “werewolf curse brought on by Zathrian” plot device. To me it was weak.

Ok Ironworkers,,, this is my 2 cents. What’s your take?

Luvian 02-15-2010 04:55 PM

Re: DAO NPC alignments and thoughts in general--PLOT SPOILERS!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElfBane (Post 1238713)
PLOT SPOILERS WITHIN!!
Elves—Not so good with Elves though. Bioware makes them effete and oddly dainty. I also CANNOT understand why the Elf race would put up with enslavement or being forced into ghettos. I also didn’t like the whole “werewolf curse brought on by Zathrian” plot device. To me it was weak.

Ok Ironworkers,,, this is my 2 cents. What’s your take?

Yeah well... people rarely go into enslavement voluntarily. If you look around for the elven lore you'll find out the elves had wars with human over this and lost every times. :p

ElfBane 02-15-2010 10:30 PM

Re: DAO NPC alignments and thoughts in general--PLOT SPOILERS!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Luvian (Post 1238719)
Yeah well... people rarely go into enslavement voluntarily. If you look around for the elven lore you'll find out the elves had wars with human over this and lost every times. :p

The American Indians lost almost all of their wars against the US government. But whenever slavers tried to enslave them,,, they simply vanished. They refused to be enslaved. I would like to think that high fantasy elves would have the same resolve.

Felix The Assassin 02-16-2010 12:09 AM

Re: DAO NPC alignments and thoughts in general--PLOT SPOILERS!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElfBane (Post 1238713)
PLOT SPOILERS WITHIN!!

Shale—Very useful Tank. Hard to read, but I’ll go with True Neutral.


Zevran—Never trusted him, so I hardly used him. Strikes me as a character that does bad (or good) things solely because of money…a typical Neutral Evil alignment.

Dude! Did you play with the sound off? Shale, Chaotic for sure, listen to his "questioning" of the "Swamp Witch" and his tormenting of the "Ole hag of a mage"!

Zevran I hear, can be trusted...either way... I'm thinking Chaotic Neutral.

If you are going to play a rogue next, you should pay attention to getting Zevran's approval rating to at least +27, over 35 opens up a whole new world altogether! I noticed how you gauged Leliana and Alistar, but had a different opinion on the other.

Luvian 02-16-2010 03:16 AM

Re: DAO NPC alignments and thoughts in general--PLOT SPOILERS!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElfBane (Post 1238727)
The American Indians lost almost all of their wars against the US government. But whenever slavers tried to enslave them,,, they simply vanished. They refused to be enslaved. I would like to think that high fantasy elves would have the same resolve.

You have to remember that they were first defeated by the Empire of mages who's mastery of magic was so great they breached god's city and tainted the world forever. They also stripped the elves of their immortality, magic, culture and all all of what made them elves. It's a more dominating threat than colonial Americans.

Arcalian 02-16-2010 04:12 AM

Re: DAO NPC alignments and thoughts in general--PLOT SPOILERS!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ElfBane (Post 1238713)
Loghain Mac Tir—This guy was dead as soon as I had him in my power, so I never traveled or had a beer with the man. I will say this, he must be mad. How can someone endanger his daughter’s dynastic rights??? Then do his best to alienate the nobility??? When there is a Blight coming? He is classic Chaotic Evil in his “mad” phase. What he was like before the insanity set in I have no idea.

Having taken Loghain along and basically exhausted his dialogues and used him in the DLC areas, I can take a shot at this.

He honestly didn't beleive it was a Blight.....until it was too late. He also honestly beleived that Orlais would conquer Ferelden as soon as it was over if he didn't keep his guard up. Everything he is and does is blinded by his view of Orlais. Other Ferelden NPCs have this--ask Arl Eamon about it, particularly, and some of the Human Noble's mother's dialogue in the Origin glances off it--Loghain just takes it all the way out.

His reasons for fleeing at Ostagar are essentially that he felt it was a lost cause, and that if he'd charged he'd be dead right alongside Cailan.

All of that having been said, he's a very ends-justify-the-means kind of guy. He's never really sorry for what he did morally speaking....but he admits he made a "tactical error" beause it really was a Blight. And will (almost gladly) sacrifice himself to take out the Archdemon if you don't do Morrigan's deal. Everything is focused around (his view of) what is best for Ferelden. I'd call him Lawful Evil, really.

And no, this is not an attempt to justify him or apologize for him. So please let's not have that argument. Saw that enough times on the official DAO forums to know I don't want to participate myself.

ElfBane 02-16-2010 06:24 AM

Re: DAO NPC alignments and thoughts in general--PLOT SPOILERS!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin (Post 1238729)
Dude! Did you play with the sound off? Shale, Chaotic for sure, listen to his "questioning" of the "Swamp Witch" and his tormenting of the "Ole hag of a mage"!

Zevran I hear, can be trusted...either way... I'm thinking Chaotic Neutral.

If you are going to play a rogue next, you should pay attention to getting Zevran's approval rating to at least +27, over 35 opens up a whole new world altogether! I noticed how you gauged Leliana and Alistar, but had a different opinion on the other.

I said Shale was a hard read for me. I didn't use Wynne much, so missed that banter. And you can't win arguments with Morrigan,,,I've met too many RL folks like her. Just nod your head and do what you were going to do anyway! But I digress...Shale gave me the impression of a creature never meant for free will,,,suddenly being gifted with it. And feeling out his/her boundaries in the new experience of free will. Shale may have talked Chaotic, but never DID anything Chaotic, at least on my watch.

I don't mind giving Zevran another chance (what am I going to do with TWO rogues??), it just irked me that when I got him he had NO archery skills. As to his alignment, I think doing things for the sole motivation of money is Neutral Evil. You pays your money and takes your pick.

I don't get what you mean by "I noticed how you gauged Leliana and Alistar, but had a different opinion on the other." I graded them both as overall Good alignment. But there was always, in my mind, a doubt about Leliana. Is/was she really an Orlesian spy? Just waiting for the collapse of Ferelden so Orlei could move in?

ElfBane 02-16-2010 06:35 AM

Re: DAO NPC alignments and thoughts in general--PLOT SPOILERS!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcalian (Post 1238735)
Having taken Loghain along and basically exhausted his dialogues and used him in the DLC areas, I can take a shot at this.

He honestly didn't beleive it was a Blight.....until it was too late. He also honestly beleived that Orlais would conquer Ferelden as soon as it was over if he didn't keep his guard up. Everything he is and does is blinded by his view of Orlais. Other Ferelden NPCs have this--ask Arl Eamon about it, particularly, and some of the Human Noble's mother's dialogue in the Origin glances off it--Loghain just takes it all the way out.

His reasons for fleeing at Ostagar are essentially that he felt it was a lost cause, and that if he'd charged he'd be dead right alongside Cailan.

All of that having been said, he's a very ends-justify-the-means kind of guy. He's never really sorry for what he did morally speaking....but he admits he made a "tactical error" beause it really was a Blight. And will (almost gladly) sacrifice himself to take out the Archdemon if you don't do Morrigan's deal. Everything is focused around (his view of) what is best for Ferelden. I'd call him Lawful Evil, really.

And no, this is not an attempt to justify him or apologize for him. So please let's not have that argument. Saw that enough times on the official DAO forums to know I don't want to participate myself.

These are just my impressions. Some NPC's I barely used (SOMEONE has to cook and keep the camp tidy!), so didn't see the whole of their personality. However, being retired military, what Loghain did was outright Treason. So I killed him (actually Alistair did the actual deed).

Arguments are fine. Flames are not. I don't know what the DAO boards are like, but IW has low tolerance of Flaming. Flame and you are warned...Once. Flame again, it's 30 days in the hole.

CerebroDragon 02-16-2010 09:07 AM

Re: DAO NPC alignments and thoughts in general
 
Nice job on getting some good solid argument and discussion going here, Elfsbane. It's what I like to see. It's also what I seemingly failed to do with my impressions thread. :D (What's going on there people, I don't bite! :lol:)

That said, I find it difficult to really reduce character's morality outside of the AD&D universe to a generalised alignment and kind of question its usefulness. I guess it's fun to theorise personalities. But regarding Sten - I find it hard to really accept that someone who commits murder as he did can be seen as Lawful Neutral. Though there are certainly aspects to his character that might fall into this category.

I'm in the same boat as you in a way, in that I never really used too many NPC's from my first playthrough, essentially because I was attempting to roleplay a dwarf with noble intentions. This seemed to translate into an inability to trust alot of the characters encountered (Zevran, Morrigan and Sten being the most obvious examples of this.)

From a positive side, I ended up really liking Wynne. She's a mature, fully developed and intelligent woman, with a big heart, a nice bright spark of wisdom, of which really becomes evident in camp. She also doesn't come saddled with the neurotic issues that comes with a Leliana or a Morrigan or for that matter most of the female PC's from Bioware games that tend to treat you as their psychologist.
Shame you couldn't romance her to be honest. It's kind of ironic that BioWare allowed a same-sex romance, but not with someone who might be considered much older than the PC.

I'm trying out other NPCs in my current playthrough as a more darker intentioned Blood Mage. Perhaps I'll try out some of the other npcs and see what they have to offer. (Shale for one!)

Good post, keep up the discussion.

ElfBane 02-16-2010 10:03 AM

Re: DAO NPC alignments and thoughts in general
 
I didn't join your discussion because I hadn't finished the game yet! Now that I have, on come the mods. I can see Sten's behaviour as Chaotic also, but I think it was more a reaction to their defeat, waking up in a strange environment, and not having his weapon. His weapon was his "rite of passage" talisman and provided status in his rigid society. IOW, I think he panicked, and that berserking behaviour was not an integral part of his personality.

As to using ADD alignment, I just think it's fun. It gives you a quick handle on a characters personality without having to resort to psychoanalysis or psychobabble.


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