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-   -   Replay Value (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101315)

Dr.Pick 01-19-2010 09:46 PM

Replay Value
 
Well folks, I've reinstalled, employed VirtualDub so I can actually leave Valeia, created a test group, and got them into several scrapes with the somewhat unsavory denizens of the Wilderness on and around the path to the Crypt.

Our first foray left one dead man to be resurrected which brought back memories of more drastic consequences when I first ventured into the Gael Serran about ten years ago.

Those initial experiences with a new kind of game led me to these hallowed halls, and so I'm back once again.

I'll be checking the tech tips to see if I can tone down the oversize pixels in my window looking into the Gael Serran. The interface looks fine.

Peace, +Dr.Pick

Wyvern 01-20-2010 08:32 AM

Re: Replay Value
 
Yay!!!!

Do keep us up to date on your adventures!!!

Dr.Pick 01-21-2010 12:03 AM

Re: Replay Value
 
I've started to get used to the game play and I wanted to roll out a new group without completely removing the old one. I have all the save slots filled and I thought I had more than one group in the past, but now I can't remember how I did it!

Do I reroll a new group and just save them over an old slot from the old group?

+Dr.Pick

Shadow Stranger 01-21-2010 02:05 AM

Re: Replay Value
 
In W&W you can go to the Inn in Valeia and remove them from the party one at a time or you can use the method below:
If you have only one file in each save game folder, "game##.sav", you can get cracking in Windows Explorer. Make a copy of it and rename it "#game##.sav". This should preserve it from being overwritten whenever you save the game.
To actually load that save you would need to rename the official "game##.sav", then delete the number in front of the name of #game##.sav.

(If you had a game with multiple files in each save game folder, you could create some new folders in your game directory. Then move the save game files from each official game save folder into the folders you had created.)

Wyvern 01-21-2010 08:32 AM

Re: Replay Value
 
Yes, you can just save them over an old slot

and you can remove your old party to the inn.

If you want to make back ups of them you can just copy the files to another folder (I always had a folder named "backup") I believe (it has been a long time since I've played) that you not only want to save your game##.sav but also the roster file as well (roster.dat?)

So what sort of party are you putting together???

Dr.Pick 01-23-2010 03:45 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Thanks for the replies!

I don't think I'll go through the effort of backing up the saves for the test group. I'll probably just keep the most recent save and save over the others with the new group.

I'm still working on a new group. My first one had no rogue and no archer. I didn't like that very much.

I've never had a Gnome so I'm trying one out, but I also like Ratling Rogues, so I created one of those as well. I might just have two Rogues to start with!

The Rat has much better fighting skill, so he'll go into the Ninja-Assassin direction if this works well, but I'm not sure of the direction of the Gnome at this point. I've never done a Bard, and I understand they're good for that role.

A Pixie and/or Elven Wizard, a Whiskah Warrior or Priest, and a Dwarven Warrior or Priest.

Ah, decisions, decisions...

+Dr.Pick

Shadow Stranger 01-23-2010 08:16 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
I once tried a Ratling Rogue as the party leader and he was surprisingly viable up till Ishad Nha.
As for party composition, there are many good posts on this area. In the beginning I like to have two Priests, one specializing in Spirit magic, the other in Vine. Then at least two mages, one specializing in Sun, the other in Stone.

Dr.Pick 01-24-2010 08:47 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Yeah, I've had Ratling Rogues a few times. They're very good to have.

I've only ever had one Priest, but I suppose that would work with the right combination of other characters.

Problem is, I can't have two of everything! I can't imagine starting out without at least one warrior with a sword. That means only one of one of the other classes.

Which shall it be- Wizard, Rogue, or Priest? I've also only had one Rogue in the past, and having two this time was going to be a bit of an experiment. Still thinking.

+Dr.Pick

Shadow Stranger 01-24-2010 10:43 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
I found the Rogue in place 1 to be surprisingly okay, you can always turn him into a Barbarian.
You could go: Warrior, Rogue, two Priests and two Wizards.
Vine magic is needed for curing poison&, it is not an optional extra.

Dr.Pick 01-25-2010 06:04 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Yeah, that's just it, I was going to do two Rogues- One Gnome, which I've never used, and one Ratling which is familiar. I'm still thinking.

I've been insisting on high stat roles in creating so I can give non-warriors, i.e. Priest(s) and Rogues, some fighting skills, and to provide more money for starting out.

+Dr.Pick

Shadow Stranger 01-25-2010 08:24 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Two Rogues may not be necessary, you basically want them for their lockpicking and trap disarming. If you go Rogue > Barbarian, the PC remains an active thief the whole time. It all depends on your style of play.

Dr.Pick 01-26-2010 09:39 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Yeah, I know it's not necessary, and I was planning to do divergent paths for them although I wasn't entirely sure what those would be.

I can do a similar thing with two priests, but I'd have either one Warrior and one Wizard, two Warriors and no Wizard, or two Wizards and no Warriors.

I'd lean toward no Warriors or one of each, but I have to make sure that the Priests and/or Rogues have good fighting skills to make up for the lack of melee strength that warriors provide early on.

Of course a Priest can become a Paladin eventually, but so can a Warrior, and you can get plenty of potions and scrolls to cure poison in the Serpent Temple in my recollection. I believe that's how my past groups made it with one Priest.

I think I'll stick with one Priest, one Warrior, two Rogues and two Wizards. With a good priest and at least one Rogue with relatively good melee skill, we should be fine.

I have a Gourk Warrior with an 87 role that I cannot pass up, and the Rogues, priest, and Wizard are low 80s, so I just have to get another good Wizard, and we'll be ready to save the Lands of the Gael Serran.

+Dr.Pick

Shadow Stranger 01-27-2010 02:04 AM

Re: Replay Value
 
Serpent Temple is not the only source of poison. Cure Poison spell avoids the need to reload after a Rogue botches a trap. Then the party might hit Jungle Lilies or Gypetian Asps&.
It all depends on your style of play, I am heavily into magic use so I will want all six schools of spells. Vine provides Haste as well as Pry and Disarm Trap, latter spells make it useful for backing up Rogues.

Dr.Pick 01-27-2010 11:29 AM

Re: Replay Value
 
I know, but a Paladin can study Vine for those beasties that show up later in the game, and this is one of the very few games that I can handle magic users effectively, however I still tend to use them less than other people do. Almost exclusively, I use them for combat and healing magics.

I also tend to use potions and scrolls a lot especially since they are not uncommon items and anyone can use them.

Even though it's been quite some time, I did play through this game at least once completely, and while I've forgotten many of the details, as I plan, play, and write, much has come back as well.

I appreciate your input, and I'll update you with how the new crew is doing once I finalize them and get them out into the world.

Peace, +Dr.Pick

Dr.Pick 01-29-2010 08:54 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
ok, I'm wrong about Paladins being able to study Vine- they study Spirit, but it still holds true that potions and scrolls will get you through the Temple. I was thinking of Rangers- they study Vine and that makes more sense. Sorry!

Furthermore, I've been intrigued by the Tome of Misinformation's suggestion to have a party of "little people"- Gourks, Dwarves, Ratlings, Gnomes, and Pixies all fit the bill. I'm leaning in that direction.

Peace, +Dr.Pick

Shadow Stranger 01-30-2010 03:31 AM

Re: Replay Value
 
You could have a Paladin become a Ranger for a while, if you wanted him to study Vine, but he won't be able to return to being a Paladin. My recollection is that poison came my way all too often, not just in the Temple. I don't know if that is a result of my style of play or not.
In the Temple I killed everything that moved.
I don't know if Haste is any good here, it usually is in computer games. That is one thing I did not really try when I played.
At high levels I switched classes a lot: if all classes have a maximum 250,000 xp to gain a new level, that is equivalent to the xp needed for level 12 or 13 in each class. So at level 12 or 13 the xp needed to gain an additional level in the existing class would give you around the first dozen levels in a new class.

Dr.Pick 01-30-2010 03:22 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
I suppose I could also do a Ranger first, then a Paladin. I like the Paladin Class better, and I'd have to see if it would be sensible.

Some types of characters are going to be more susceptible- resistances to poison from both their stats and any items that may provide protection from poison would be key factors.

As I recall, I usually didn't switch classes a lot, but did what made sense for the development of the individual as well as provide the best balance for the group.

+Dr.Pick

Shadow Stranger 01-31-2010 07:38 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Switching classes is the way to rapidly advance in a given spellbook, as long as you switch to a new class that has the same spellbook. This is due to you getting a lot of levels in the new class for the xp price of one level in the old class.
This is true in Wizardry games too. It is useful if you are playing a magic-centered game.

Dr.Pick 02-01-2010 09:13 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
As I mentioned above, I try to choose classes that make sense for character development and a well rounded group of adventurers. What kind of person is this and why are they choosing this path to follow. That's the kind of role playing I try to employ in the game. Switching roles to gain spells and mana more rapidly would be playing the game, but not role playing the game for me.

I played Wizardry 8 for a while, but it was too difficult for me to play. I found it very frustrating. I eventually got to the first "town" following the starter dungeon, but it took way too long with way too many reloads. I felt like I was wasting my time.

I was disappointed because I was really looking forward to it since DW Bradley had worked on previous Wizardry games and I figured the style would be similar(and it was), but as I said, it was too hard for me.

Peace, +Dr.Pick

Shadow Stranger 02-03-2010 08:53 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Wizardry 8, party design may have been a problem?
As for W&W, role-playing (rather than roll-playing) will be a challenge, you won't get the same power as you would from class-switching. Should be interesting to see how far you get.

Dr.Pick 02-06-2010 03:10 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
With W8, I was evaluating advice to have an effective party to play. It's partly my own weaknesses as a gamer with weak keyboarding skills and slow thinking processes.

It helps a lot to have high rolling characters to start in W&W. That's one of the reasons why it was taking so long to create a party. I'm sure I won't have much trouble with the group I now have. If I choose to, they'll go all the way to the end game.

Peace, +Dr.Pick

Shadow Stranger 02-10-2010 01:15 AM

Re: Replay Value
 
Role playing in W&W would be tough, there are not many oppurtunities to do it. I am not clear how you could express a PC's personality in a meaningful way. The difference between melee and magic is the only thing I can think of.

Dr.Pick 02-12-2010 09:23 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Role playing is different with a group of characters as opposed to an individual, and any game will have its challenging RP aspects with the game's design and what an individual gamer feels is important to their ideas about role playing.

It's a bit harder and takes a little longer to get into a specific character's "head" when you have a few others to do the same thing with at the same time. Some people feel that eating, drinking, and sleeping are very important, while I think it's irrelevant.

What's important to me is what direction will each character take- which elite role(s), and what, if any, special roles will they take on in their career? Names and races are important so I take my time with those as well.

Note that in these very W&W forums are stories conjured/inspired by actual play throughs from persons visiting these hallowed halls! They CAN take on a "personality" even when their primary function is killing things and robbing their corpses of their stuff!

It takes a little more imagination than other games such as Morrowind and Oblivion in which you have one individual with more stat developing freedom than W&W, and that's just fine with me- I love all three.

The only other challenge is actual game difficulty which I don't handle well, so instead, I crank the difficulty settings way down, and with this game, I create very strong characters with very large inheritances to start out with. They are well equipped and highly developed.

Peace, +Dr.Pick

Dr.Pick 02-15-2010 03:32 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
To update: The Little People have cleared the Crypt, Killed Scabban, and visited Ishad'Na to deliver Barrenhawk's Package, and get the Rogues into the Guild of the Shadow. They met with little resistance in spite of the fact that targeting anything
in D3D mode with Win XP is challeging all by itself. Ankhs, Bracelets, scrolls, and Gems are extremely difficult.

When speaking to Scabban, at the end of his little speech, Angelus the priest said "Goodbye", and Scabban walked right into the hole in the floor and fell right down into the water below! Needless to say, he was difficult to target, so they jumped down onto his head and pummeled him down through the grate along with the slimes that had accompanied him there. Imagine six adventurers standing on top of a tall wet lump of mud! Quite a sight to see!

Speaking with the Oracle was also challenging for the same reason as well as the fact that a pixie talking in 3ft. of water will sink below the waterline and everyone has to hold their breath, so I switched to the Gourk who had no such issues.

After visiting Ishad'Na, they went back to Valeia to tie up a few loose ends with the Mages Guild and move their "significant others"(Mules) to the next town. Oddly, Sir Elgar did NOT receive word of our success in delivering the package to Barrenhawk in Ishad'Na.

+Dr.Pick

Shadow Stranger 02-15-2010 06:41 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Good, your new party is working out.
"Ankhs, Bracelets, scrolls, and Gems are extremely difficult." What do you mean here? Issues with trying to target them or find them?
I had no real problems with trying to target anything and I was using Windows XP too. (I forget what mode I was using though.)
Barrenhawks's package was successfully delivered to Lord Barrenhawk but Sir Elgar did not know that. Leave Valeia and then return, try the conversation again. Try every trigger word that you can think of. W&W is somewhat eccentric and is occasionally buggy, this is not a known bug though, it may go away.

Dr.Pick 02-15-2010 08:58 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Yes, targeting everything is difficult, but especially small items. When I was in software mode(which looked horrendous), it was no problem, but when I put D3D (I think 600x800), only certain spots on anything targetable would give the target symbol allowing you to speak, attack, pick up, or activate it. Another reason why turn based mode for fighting is a necessity.

Yes, I went back to Ishad'Na(moving mules) and returned to Valeia, then he acknowledged the quest completed without any conversation prompts.

+Dr.Pick

Dr.Pick 02-15-2010 10:30 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
The following quote is from the notes for a graphics patch which I downloaded here(at IW), and I am considering using one of the enhanced graphics modes- the question is which resolution to use? I have a standard size CRT monitor. No wide screen or multi-screen set up.

+Dr.Pick

"The second bug is that the DirectDraw Z buffer gets accessed while unlocked. This second bug makes selecting objects and monsters on the 3d portion of the screen difficult. These bugs may also affect video cards other than Radeons.

This patch also allows playing the game at either 1280x960 or 1280x1024 resolution. In this resolution the user interface graphics that were designed for a resolution of 640x480 are scaled up by a factor of exactly two. This results in a much better looking display than using either 800x600 or 1024x768 resolutions which use fractional scale factors resulting in a distorted looking user interface. To use either 1280x960 or 1280x1024 resolution select the appropriate radio button in the patch utility's dialog before applying the patch. Then when you run Wizards & Warriors select hardware mode and "800x600" resolution. The game will then use the resolution you chose when applying the patch."

Shadow Stranger 02-16-2010 07:58 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
I know nothing about graphics, I have only two settings on my screen: 800*600 and 1,024*768. I have never had any problems with graphics so I have never used the graphics patches.

Dr.Pick 02-17-2010 11:38 AM

Re: Replay Value
 
I'd PM'd Wyvern and while she didn't know, she did encourage me because the patch is likely older than widescreen's common use, so I tried it. The glitch is fixed and the game looks absolutely beautiful. Night time is much darker, so I may have to adjust the monitor or the gamma.

The Little People are ready to head into the Serpent Temple, but they may need to stock up on more cure poison scrolls and/or potions since Angelus doesn't have that spell yet.

I'm also having my warriors go Barbarian for a while as well. They're level 7, and they'll level quickly up to that point and then they can move on to other roles.

+Dr.Pick

Dr.Pick 03-09-2010 09:41 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Just about done with the Serpent Temple- Elyssa is going down tonight.

My Gnome Rogue is now a Bard and my Ratling Rogue isn't sure what he wants to do yet. Probably still go Ninja.

My Gourk Barbarian with probably go Ranger while My Dwarf will go Paladin.

My Priest and Wizard Pixies will both go Warlock eventually.

Wyvern 03-11-2010 12:44 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Sounds like you are making great progress!!! :)

Shadow Stranger 03-11-2010 08:27 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
After the Serpent Temple comes the rite of passage, the ghastly Jungle Lilies. That will really test your party line-up.

Dr.Pick 03-12-2010 10:48 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Well, sort of. I'm already wise to the 4(or 5) Amazoni Mantraps by the lake in the East and how to deal with them.

The Little People were able to dispatch them without a scratch. It was funny because they were exploring carefully in daylight, rounded a corner of some trees, and saw these abominable plants writhing about- They turned and ran in terror! They were going to double back another way, and almost ran headlong into the Mantraps at an opening in the trees! They quickly backed off and started hurling Burning Haze and Locust Swarm at them through the opening in the trees. They had to replenish mana before it was over and had minor irritations in the form of Trolls and whatnot walking past the Mantraps to attack us on occasion. It was a good time.

However, there are several Lillies in the Boogre Dungeon that are more challenging because Lillies are the upgraded version, you have less room to maneuver, and your group have greatly reduced spellcasting abilities- at least with your first encounter because they are still cursed with Boogreism.

+Dr.Pick

Wyvern 03-13-2010 08:35 AM

Re: Replay Value
 
I enjoyed reading that!!! :) :) :)

The Salads are most interesting!!! And if Bungleau were around, he'd say: "They will hunt you down!"

LOL!!

Felix The Assassin 03-13-2010 08:17 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Speaking of Bungleau, he has been silent for a very long time. Any ideas?

Also, does W&W play on Win7?

Dr.Pick 03-13-2010 11:25 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
I can't imagine anyone's tried it on Win7 because it's well off the gaming radar by now although someone saw my Tome of Misinformation lying at my workstation the other day and asked about it. Perhaps he'll seek it out and end up at these boards looking for that very answer. ;^)

+Dr.Pick

Wyvern 03-14-2010 11:34 AM

Re: Replay Value
 
Haven't seen Bungleau on this forum in ages. I did sent him a private message when we had a couple of tech questions but didn't see him show up for those. WOuld be nice to see him drop by!

I believe getting W&W to run on Win7 would be similar to getting it to run on XP, but I don't know of anyone who has actually tried.

Felix The Assassin 03-14-2010 01:40 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
I have found older games like 'Morrowind" play much better on 7, than it ever did on my XP box. Have read elsewhere that "Baldurs Gate" is 7 friendly.

I might give W&W a shot once I'm tired of "Dragon Age".

Dr.Pick 03-14-2010 08:40 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
So, The Little People found and started checking out the Shurugeon Castle ruins. They sent a Swamp Muck back to the puddle of goo from which it came and were marking the front gate on their map when the Silent Spirit hurled a spell at them from the Castle wall!

Now I'm thinking I've got the wrong name and it might not be the one they are supposed to avoid. The Tome mentions a Sleeping Sentinel in the monster list and I don't think that's what it was.

+Dr.Pick

Dr.Pick 03-16-2010 09:48 PM

Re: Replay Value
 
Ok, They managed to get into the ruins eventually- those dark underwater caves that twist around drive me crazy! I have a terrible sense of direction.

Anyway, they breezed through the outer ruins and the Gate Towers seemed to be abandoned, so they went right up to the lever, opened the gates, and cries from the Sleeping Sentinel rang out as it took crush damage from the opening gates!

Oh, how they laughed!... except for Wili the Rat who fretted and whined all the way back to town that he might not get credit for the deed since the Sentinel had obviously been "disturbed", but the Dojo Master didn't care since Wili managed to open the gate BEFORE the Sentinel was awoken. They just didn't gain any experience from its demise since it was accidentally killed.

Now that Wili's a Ninja, I'll have to get Gronk the Gourk Barbarian into Ranger Training. He's always been facinated with Fletchery and Bowmanship, but his Clan always made fun of Archers as "sissies". Seeing Wili the Rat with his bow recently has renewed Gronk's interest and he's going to inquire at the Armory tonight.

Peace, +Dr.Pick


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