<font color=skyblue>Friday I was at a famous hotdog/icecream place on campus and a white guy walks in to inquire about a job. He asked for the manager, who then presented himself, and the applicant began talking to him over the counter where we all could hear. He mentioned briefly that he could work the hours requested, but then his first question that came out in the same breath as his availability was "are my dreads a problem?"

See...those with Dreadlocks are considered "dirty" because supposedly in the past, you could not wash dreads because that would ruin them. Today however, I hear that people have been forced to find a way to "clean" their dreads to be allowed to do many things in society. I do not know what these cleaning steps are, or if they are effective, but today's society still does not accept people with dreadlocks as clean individuals, and does not trust them in respectable positions within the society.

First of all, why would anyone "want" to style their hair in a way that makes them less likely to find a job or walk around without being scoffed at? I mean, the guy is "white". Its not his culture to have dreads.

Second, are dreads "cleaner" today than they have been known to be in the past? What are these cleaning steps that ensures clean hair without ruining the muck that makes up the dreads?

Third, do you think that guy got the job at the resturant? Why or why not? I'll tell you the rest of the story soon.</font>

I don't care. How's that for an answer :D

1. Cuz being cool can sometimes hurt but it don't matter what it costs if you achieve the image you want. Look at the Goth-types. Good lord, who'd wanna apply all that makeup daily? They have more on than most women.

As for it (dreadlocks) being a black thing, it isn't really anymore. You see a fair amount of white people with them now. But I agree, for some reason my immediate impression when I see it on a white person is "dirty" or even "stoner". Not sure why I have that association but I do...

2. I hear they are but amn't sure how much. Apparently you can "bathe" them...

3. I don't think he got it. Why? I don't know.

Skin color, religion, and/or culture can have little or nothing do to with why people would do dreads. Dreads are a CLEAN, low-maintence, and natural way to grow hair. You can wash them all you want. Some places even sell special shampoo to help the dreading process.

A common fault is not with those who grow dreads and the myriad reasons why those indivduals might choose so. The fault is with the people who pre-judge them based on their appearance. We all are capable of this and we all do it. How we deal with this trait is what gives us some 'character" or lack there of.

I am happy and proud to work for a retailer who doesn't judge by appearance. On my staff there are several dreads, of both genders and different skin colors

So I hope the guy got the job There are special hair-nets and hats for even the bulkiest dreads, so sanitation should not be a concern for a thoughtful restaraunt employer.

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...;f=34;t=000238

:D

I thought I felt a bit of De Ja Vou on this topic, lol.

..could always get the big mofo hair net!

It's part of being young and rebellious i suppose. Same as a mohawk, why anyone would want to walk around looking like a rooster on acid is beyond me. You simply know that you're not going to find a job looking like that, it's sometimes hard enough to get one if you do show up with a "conventional" look, let alone looking like a piece of crap. :D

It's true about those dreads though, i had a collleage once, a black dude with dreads all the way down to his lower back, and i refused to sit next to him during lunch, because he stank like an otter. They claim it's part of their culture, i say they are just unwashed lazy bums, who would rather spent their last penny on weed instead of shampoo.

I have a friend who has dreadlocks and although, yes, there are cleaning products for it, it just makes them smell worse and does not really help at all.

My thoughts?

You've made a hell of a lot of assumptions, and you are walking towards the fine line of racism.

that's what I think.

#1 dreads are dirty. Always have been, always will be. They are just long knots of matted hair. No matter how much you wash them they realy aren't ever "clean". Clean things don't smell like a wet dog.

#2 If some one thinks it will be a problem getting a job because they have long smelly ropes of hair then maybe they should cut them. If you know it will be a problem ahead of time, why not fix the problem.

#3 I hope he did not get the job because if he lacks the common sense to look presentable , well, he probably lacks common sense in other areas as well.

Oh please. This has nothing to do with race. It is about a sort of hairstyle. We associate this style originally with a particular race of people. Doesn't mean that it's racist. We all make judgements...you have your own and I have mine. But in no way do these judgements automatically make us racist, otherwise we'd all be.

Bunk, after six weeks without shampoo your hair *will* clean itself, dreads or no. Truth

Bunk, dreadlocks STINK. Truth.

Absolutely true, and i know what i'm talking about.

Weird, I'm on near daily occassion surrounded by dread-locked people and none of them stink. I know this well, since I quit smoking in August I can and do smell like I have never before.

My good friend has long red dreaded hair and he simply does not stink. He showers and cleans his hair nearly everyday every day or so. Know him for years, worked with him everyday, and he has never once stank.

My previous boss had long dreads and she usually smelled great, if anything noticable from a typical distance.


People with poor hygiene can stink, but this has nothing to do with hair style.

[ 12-11-2006, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

Of course, agreed. The thing is it is a hairstyle that comes with work. Some are willing to do the work, and clean and rebraid it properly and others are not but still want the look.

Chewbacca, congrats to you [img]smile.gif[/img] I quit smoking as well in August, and know what you mean regarding sense of smell.

[ 12-11-2006, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: ladyzekke ]

<font color=skyblue>In answer to my timed question is this:

No, the guy did not get the job, but it was not because of his hair, because they agreed that wearing a hair net or tying it back was just fine.

Then came the next level of the interview from across the counter.

He was asked if he lived on campus, and he said no, but he could get a ride every day from a friend. (bad mark #1...not self-reliant). He then volunteered that he had taken a semester or two before. (bad mark #2 & 3...was it 1 or 2 semesters? Why not be accurate? Besides that, why did he not finish what he started? This shows he's a quitter).

With 3 marks against him that had nothing to do with the hair, he lost his chance.</font>

Completly right! Don't hire lazy people that smell funny! :D

<font color=skyblue>An assumption is accepting a statement as true without proof.

I walked behind a girl that had dreads before, and she smelled so bad that I had to stop walking a for a few steps and let her get ahead of me so I could breathe. She is the only person I have ever been so close to as to smell the dreadlocks, and so I associated that experience with what friends have told me in the past of their own experiences. Therefore, I feel justified that my statement was not merely an assumption because I have proof to support my claim.

I also mentioned in my post that I understand that in today's dread-wearing culture, there are ways to clean them that before did not exist or whatever the reason, and so I could "ASSUME" that people are cleaner now than they ever have been. That IS an assumption because I have no proof to support the idea that they are cleaner.

I said that today's society still does not accept Dreadlock-wearing people as "clean" and comfortable to be around because that is based off of proof that people in my state do not accept them as people they want to be near, and that dreadlock-wearing people have a harder time because of the choice they make to wear them. This is not an assumption, because it is based off of fact of where I live.

I also know that it is fact and not assumption that white people cannot claim that wearing dreads is a cultural statement. That's because I am white, (though I have enough Cherokee indian in me that other indigenous people can tell I have indigenous ancestry just by looking at me...wierd, huh?).

So you came within an inch of calling me racist, but from what facts do you make that claim? Or is your statement an ASSUMPTION?
</font>

Shall I point out that eyewitness testomony is so unreliable that (in the uk) you can't be convicted on it alone?

He could be wearing dreads because his family does, and he's just the odd one out that doesn't look even slightly of colour. My boyfriend is quarter cast, his father half. They are both as pale as me.

Could be you didn't see a white person, you saw someone who just hit one end of the genetic lottery instead of the other.

Yes I almost called you racist, because from my experience people who make the kind of statments you made will make racist jokes at partys, will be uncomfortable talking to someone a diffrent shade of grey to your own, and generaly not be a nice individual, and are generaly racist, but just don't do anything to prove it in day to day life.

That's from my experience, I have proof in my own mind to support my statments, just as much as yourself at least.

I consider myself a rascist, but I choose not to show it when it is inappropriate. I just think what I think and that's how it will be.

I think the term racism is being thrown around too much here. Even if someone actually went ahead and made an automatic (and unfair) judgement on someone because of their hairstyle it isn't racism anyway. Yes, if that happens it's a form of discrimination but it is about hair, not skin, race.

I don't feel that's happening here anyway, but just people's opinions being presented based on the facts that they know about managing this hairstyle. It is a simple thing yet people are throwing in labels when there's no need.

<font color=skyblue>Shall I point out that I live in the US, where US juries will convict on eyewitness testimony alone, the majority of the time?

I know this because I just passed a course in Psychology and the Law this semester at UNCG.

(And our textbook was the April 2006 edition. I paid $114.00 new for the stupid thing and only got back $37.00 on buyback from the bookstore, even though my book was in great condition. = Angry!). </font>

[ 12-12-2006, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

I've never noticed any really stinky dreadlocked people, although I'm sure that doesn't mean they don't exist. Lazy people come with all hair styles...
I will say that in my experience, the first person to start throwing "racism" into the conversation is usually the worst one in the bunch. This is from my own personal experience. I have seen it a lot, both out here in the world, when I could get there, and from my time in the Corrections system here in Kansas. Reading through Larry's initial post, and the subsequent discussion, the first thing that brought racism to mind was the post that actually said it, and then it was a "holy crap, where did that come from" kinda thing.

<font color=skyblue>Shall I point out that I live in the US, where US juries will convict on eyewitness testimony alone, the majority of the time?</font> </font>[/QUOTE]Yup, and you can see where that leads, three people say you've shot a man, there are no other witnesses, there is a body, there is no gun, and you have no albi...

Three people saying they saw with their own eyes you shoot a man dead, a dead body, and no one sticking up for you, let's throw in something extra, you had an argument with the person in question a few days earlier, many people saw, you where angry, when questioned leading questions are used, the witnesses are promted by such questions into saying you where red with rage. They've seen the news, they want to keep you away from their familys, so they remember clearly you threatening the victim with harm.

Ooooh, larry's now facing a possibly death penality depending which state the crime was commited in.

Welcome to the world of eyewitness testomy.

Enjoy

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

I haven't met a dreadlocked person yet that didn't stink.

<font color=skyblue>Wait,,,you've lost me.

What does this have to do with me seeing a guy with dreadlocks trying to get a job? I do not see your connection to a conviction of murder. </font>

There are a lot of people with dreadlocks here on campus, and I haven't noticed any of them smelling at all. I have met several peope who do smell, but that's because they don't shower regularly.

Congrats to you too Ladyzekke. It was tough but well worth it. Smelling things better was a benefit I hadn't even considered til I had it. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I see some racism here and a lot of common misconceptions about race. Please hear me out.

It is racist:

1) To believe that you can base race on biology (hair, skin, etc). Racial typologies have all easily failed the tests of scientific validity.

2) To assign culture to biological elements like skin color (which is pretty incoherent if you think about it - whatever we may think about culture, your upbringing determines your identity, nor your birth, though resistance to the claims of identity made by others is interesting ((or not made...maybe it's just hair [img]smile.gif[/img] )))

Popular media is pretty ignorant about this: either taking the naive approach that they don't 'see' race (yeah, they do - if they were more mature about it they'd be able to deal with it), or that races exist but do not affect anything. Well, yeah they do. There's a little thing called society wherein races do matter to varying degrees. Failing to acknowledge this and take it seriously is pretty unfair to people living with its negative effects.

You may be thinking "But we can see all see race." Yeah, that's the point. See Ann Stoler's Race and the Education of Desire, for an account of historical shifts as they relate to race, or The Emperor's New Clothes by Joseph Graves for an account of attempts to use biology to prove that races exist from the benign but misguided to eugenics. Also, since Larry mentioned Cherokee identity, Circe Sturm's work on race and tribal identity among the Cherokee, "Blood Politics" does a good job with it.

Before I started down the road to being an anthropologist and started reading about race, I took a perspective that 'yeah, I guess there are races, but of course we're all born equal'. That's pretty common, and not all racisms are equal. At least my racism was ignorant but mostly benign. Of course, when we hear 'racist' we think of its worst embodiment, and we all know what that looks like - to be accused of it naturally offends us. That really doesn't sound like anyone here, particularly in that this thread started with an effort to learn more.

Ultimately, I think that the most ethical thing to do is to accept that we're all racist to a degree - in that we see race at the least. The key is to be aware of it, to limit its power over our thinking, and to dissuade others from the idea that race is a salient biological concept. It's social, it's pernicious, and it has real impacts on all of us. In the spirit of dissuading others, I'm happy to monitor this thread and debate the point until our eyes bleed :D After all, it's either this or I have to seriously work on my papers.

31 posts on dreadlocks. I dare say the forumers have hit a new low.

I don't know anyone who has them, so I can't say much about the smell. I find it looks dumb. I see it on white people and black people. It has nothing to do with racism, it's just a style and maybe there's some laziness added in there as well. I see it and I think, are you waiting for birds to nest in your head? Could I turn you over and mop the floor with your head?

I see people with their gothic looks. I think they have some issues. I see people wearing jeans with a skirt over it; guess that's fashion?
I know people that overweight that smell. Am I a racist because they smell?
I see people wearing pants that are 8 sizes too big, with the crotch down to their knees. I think it looks idiotic and like you're trying to overephasize for something that's not there.

Sorry, racism has nothing to do with it, unless you automatically don't like anyone who looks a certain way; that's racism, or prejudice. The are just styles one doesn't understand and who never wear.

Now, lets do the righr thing and close this "dreaded" thread! [img]smile.gif[/img]

..... I think I just died a little inside :D

Hive, buddy, it's only fair, 'cos you're killing me with that sig thing. Could you put something in there that doesn't move? I have such a hard time reading anything 'cos it's distracting.

<font color=skyblue>Oh cool! Now I know where to come to ask for help in the next three weeks as I am taking a cultural anthropology class that starts tomorrow. You're my new online tutor. </font>

lol Larry. Funny you should mention that. They gave me my teaching assistant position for next semester. I'm TA'ing an ONLINE intro to anthropology course. I'm not even sure what that entails...

<font color=skyblue>Well, I need to help you practice.
It will be my pleasure help break you into the TA business. </font>

Sure Larry, shoot me a PM if you have a question, though intros to anthropology are usually easy-breezy. 3 weeks is kinda condensed though, so I guess they'll hit you with volume in any case.

Oh, I'm a seasoned TA as of today (wrote, gave, and graded my first final), so I think I'm technically a pro now. Let me introduce you to my hourly rate :D

<font color=skyblue>Hourly rate? I was hoping you'd just accept an invite to the Moderators' Lounge and hang out with Ziroc and the other mods for a while.

There will be food! </font>