<font color=skyblue>As many of you know, I bought a GeForce 6600 recently to replace a beaten-up Geforce III. This was causing the PC to overheat during gaming such as playing the Undermountain mod. despite the many fans that I have for intake and output. This prompted me to make two purchases. I first bought a specialty fan, a StarTech PC expansion slot video card cooling fan. It sits under my video card, right under the card's own fan and sucks all the air off of it and blows it out the back. The second thing I bought was a syringe of Arctic Silver 5. I have not yet applied this to my processor and card, because I want to see how well the fan is doing on its own.

This was the cheapest way for me to improve cooling to my system ($20), as I am not looking to keep this build much longer. I just needed it to go a little longer and let me have about 6 more months of good operation.</font>

[ 12-07-2006, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

Are you asking something or just bragging? [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I've found that it's always better to design quality airflow than to just throw money at it. While designing your airflow, keep in mind the things you cannot change(PSU fan, GPU fan if it has an outside intake/blowout), the case geometry(a thick front grill usually means no front intake) and heating components placement.

<font color=skyblue>Twas a post to see what comments or questions would get thrown at it based on one's personal feelings on the matter at hand.

See? You even gave me a comment I can count as useful feedback...and I did not even have to ask a question. </font>

I think Clay's hands have been in alot more places than he'd have Kelly believe.

Wow, the comment thing works. Hope that one was useful!

So would asking you whether or not this post would count as a useful comment?

What sort of case are you using Larry? Mid tower or full tower?

I find the "science" of PC cooling quite interesting as it's much more complicated than most people think.

And btw, good choice with the Arctic silver ;)

Interesting topic. I've recently had to remove the sides from my case due to poor airflow and subsequent lack of cooling. Funnily enough, my computer is positioned directly below an air conditioner (one that spits ice! No joke.) and it's still not staying cool during the day. The standard cooling for an X2 3800+/7800 GT just can't cope with our summers. And it's not even summer yet!

<font color=skyblue>I gotta full tower. It has exaust from the top, the panel-side, and the back. Intake from the front-bottom. I now have an additional output from the back with my new fan.

Hey...at Radio Shack of all places, I saw a really cool setup with a window-panel and the processor fan was as large as my video card! There were four huge fans in there, and they had speed controls on the front panel! It was all lit up with purple and yellow lights and made me drool a little. </font>

[ 11-28-2006, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

Fan on the video card helps. Make sure its tightly fitted and artic cooled.

Important to have good case design. Assuming tower case, make sure you have fan that sucks hot air our on the top of the tower and another fan that sucks cool air in from the bottom.

Air cond room helps but not necessary.

I'm not so sure if it is a good idea to open the case as this does not create good air flow.

After doing the above and the card still overheats then you might be having a faulty card. Or the temp sensor on the card might be faulty.

Hope this helps

I agree that the Artic Silver was a good choice. We use different types of artic silver at the company I work at for all of our tools. I think that Artic Silver 3 would have actually been a "slightly" better choice than artic silver 5 (we have found better heat transfer with AS3 than AS5--approx .09 degC/W from our experiments), but I believe that artic silver 3 is more expensive. In any case any artic silver is better than most thermal greases out there, so I applaud your decision.

<font color=skyblue>@ Ultra Marine: I do have a factory-installed fan on the graphics card, but I am told that 3rd party fans may be better so I am considering that. Opinions on any?

As for the fan setup, I have what you described with the heat being shot out the top and sucked in at the bottom.

Crap! Gotta go to class!

</font>

I've found that blocking all openings not servicing fans, with a couple of fans each serving inlet and outlet duties works best.

If you aren't using SATA hard disks (with their elegant narrow cables), make sure your ribbon cables are neatly routed to minimize the obstruction in the case.

I've found that with well thought out airflow design, the case temperature readings will actually be warmer with the sides off.

@ Ultramarine & Sir K - The sides off thang appears to be having a beneficial effect on cooling and i can't say i'm surprised. At the peak of the day, the sides of the case were uncomfortably hot to the touch and fps were at a crawl. The room in question (my "cricket" room, though not any more), has good airflow due to the aircon at back and portable fan at front creating a nice cycle of cool air around the computer and (more importantly) me. With the sides on, the heat was just staying in the case. I realise that i'm negating any benefit of the case's designed airflow, but that didn't appear to be doing much anyway. Still, i'd be appreciative if someone can point me in the direction of some free CPU/GPU thermal monitoring software. Just to be sure. ;)

My mobo came with the software on the cd. If your mobo has the winbond hardware for reading temps, there is freeware available.

[ 11-29-2006, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: Sir Krustin ]

It's just occured to me that i've probably got already got some sort of thermal software, but i'll check out the link anyway. Thanks Sir K. [img]smile.gif[/img]

If you don't have the Winbond hardware, I use Speedfan. Also allows you to control fan speeds ("GASP!", I hear you cry), and tie them to the monitored temperatures, so the fans get faster as the machine gets hotter.

[ 11-29-2006, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Callum ]

heres what you do. buy a freezer. one of those big ones that open from the top. place the computer in said freezer. press on button.

...And watch it melt, spark and fry.

Explain?

Humidity, condensation, conductivity.
Those are the harmful features of a Fridge.

Ah ok. I had wondered why noone did this. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

It is technically possible to run a PC in a freezer/fridge, unfortunately it must be nitrogen purged (or something similar) to prevent condensation ;)

heres what you do. buy a freezer. one of those big ones that open from the top. nitrogen purge said freezer, place the computer in. press on button.

having said that it might be smarter to submerge the computer in liquid helium

Hmm, might leave you with a few less $$ after a few heavy gaming sessions too :D

Or submerge it in Oil like that other thread a month or so ago. [img]smile.gif[/img]

oil isnt cool like liquid helium though

<font color=skyblue>I've decided to make this a live, day-by-day testing to see how Arctic Silver 5 works for me. By following the directions, it says that it will take up to 200 hours for the stuff to fully expand and get to its best coverage, which I have decided will be the length of 8 days.

I will be measuring the temp during this week, and by the end of 8 days, I should see improvement of 2-5 degrees Celcius if I applied it right and if it has benefit to my system.

I have applied it to a Intel P4, 1.8GHz.

I will use the EfU mod to test the temp by logging on and then monitoring the heat rise on the intel Active Monitor.

Test Day 1: I forgot to actually take an exact time frame, but within about 3 minutes, I was up to 126 on the processor zone and 115 on the system zone. I was in a low-activity area. I ended the test before it went higher than 126 for the CPU. Within five minutes of logging off, the CPU cooled to 95-99 degree, which was the starting point before I logged into the game. </font>

[ 12-07-2006, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

<font color=skyblue>Journal Entry-Day #2-Testing the PC for cooling improvements over 8 days with Arctic Silver 5

Today's starting temp was 100F processor, 100F system (38C/38C).

I entered EfU and walked to a low-activity area.

After 5 minutes, the temp had reached 126/115F (53/47C). After 8 minutes, the temp climbed an additional degree to be at 127F.

Testing was ended after 8 minutes.

Within 4 minutes, the temp had decreased to 100/106F (38/41).

Result Notes: It took an approx. an additional 2 minutes to get up to 126 for the processor than it did yesterday. The system itself is staying about 10 degrees or so cooler than the processor. This leads me to feel that my vid card is adequately cooling well enough to not be an issue, but the processor is proving to be the culprit. I am left wondering if the processor is just too old to deal with the graphics of my games. Still, its too early to tell, as Arctic Silver promises that results should be finalized after 200 running hours to ensure full coverage of the processor by their product. I earnestly await these results.

As I write this, the processor and system are now cooled to 95/97F (35/36C).</font>

[ 12-08-2006, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

Just leave the top down, and drive really fast...

<font color=skyblue>Test Day #3

* In five minutes, the temp was up to 122/111F (50/44C).

* In eight minutes, the temp was up to 126/115F (52/46C).

* Complete cooling time once the game was shut off was three minutes. </font>

[ 12-10-2006, 12:48 AM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

This is interesting to follow...

yes quite

<font color=skyblue>Sorry I could not post Test #4 last night, as my headache was severe enough that I did not want to even turn on the PC. I'll make up time by doing two tests today, 12 hours apart. </font>

<font color=skyblue>Test #4

5 Min. Game-on: 122/109F (50/43C).
8 Min. Game-on: 124/115F (51/46C).

Cool Down Time: 4 Minutes</font>

************************************************

<font color=white>Comparison of Four Days

Processor temps.

Day 1: Five Minute Test: 126F (Less than five min.)
Day 4: Five Minute Test: 122F
************************************************
Day 2: Eight Minute Test: 127F
Day 4: Eight Minute Test: 124F


Observations:

<u>Five minute Test:</u> In 4 days, temperature improved in the processor area by 4 degrees.

<u>Eight Minute Test:</u> In 4 days, temperature imrpoved in the processor area by 3 degrees.</font>

[ 12-11-2006, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

<font color=skyblue>Tonight's Results for test 5 are not good. I seem to have slipped backwards in progress.

In five minutes, the temp had reached 124 processor zone / 111 for system area in Farenheit. That's 51/44C.

In eight minutes, I was up to 126/117F (52/47C).

This test shows an increase of 2 degrees F. in both processor and system area, in both the 5 and 8 minute intervals. </font>

<font color=8fbc8f>I don't want to be the breaker of not-so-good news, but somebody has to do it. Artic Silver any number is not any better than Radio Shack thermal paste, probably not as good as to begin with. Moreover, thermal paste should only make a very small barrier between the proc, and the sink. The more, is not the merrier. Too much and it will ooze out onto the top of the proc creating a degradation in heat dissapation and performance from the on board L1 & L2 cache. Excessively too much, and puff, what's that burning smell! Additionally, anything that claims to fill a void between the sides of a surface and another, sounds like a sealant to me.

In so far as weather goes, we have had a major warming trend here, what about you? An increase in ambient temperture coupled with denser air will create a warming effect on any CPU, irregardless if it's using Artic whatever, or space shuttle "goo"! That alone probably skewed your test.

Fork out the big bucks and go "Liquid"!</font>

PS. I'm no longer a standing member in the overclockers association. It would seem that one must be a M$ user to remain a member, and Linux has no power club or OC club to date! Anyhow, I'm still 12% over on the proc, and 15% over on ram, using nothing more than Radio Shack paste, and air.

[ 12-12-2006, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Felix The Assassin ]

I'm pretty sure you can find tests if you search that compare AS5 and other thermal pastes. Supposed to be good for a couple of degrees C.

(22.5 %, and 12.5 % respectively here. Hooray for air. Although I'm moving to water soon [img]smile.gif[/img] )

<font color=skyblue>I appreciate your comments and have to add that I actually bought Arctic Silver 5 from Radio Shack, and the man that sold it to me said that he'd heard that this stuff was better than their store-name kind. That was his assumption (there's that word again!). I have never before heard anyone until now that works with computers talk negatively about AS5. For the record on my application of it, I performed the application just as described, using a dab the size of half of a small grain of rice in the center of the processor. There's no way I did that wrong, and its not going to leak over the edge.

As for weather, its been in the 60s during the days and 30s at night. We keep our internal temp of the house at 68 in the winter. As for what's going on outside, all I am concerned with is that my processor is heating up too hot and I cannot play Undermountain until I get it resolved, but I do not have any "real" money to make a "real" fix until I get a job now that I am out of school and back in the real world. I am therefore trying to find simple fixes (duct-taping the problem) until I can replace it all. While I am doing so, I am having fun learning how it all works. </font>

In response to Felix:
People don't know how to use thermal paste. It has better conductivity than air, but not as well as the aluminium or copper of the cooler. It's there just to bridge the gap. But try explaining that to Joe Regular, the 1337357 Counter Strike player ever. "OMG J00 NUB! TTr3hmal pa3st coools ur PC u n00b!1"

But there still is a difference between the "quality" and the "quantity" goods.

<font color=skyblue>Tonight's results are better than yesterday's. We're back on track with what is expected.

Five Minutes: 122/113F, (50/45C)
Eight Minutes: 124/115F, (51/46C)

The system seems to be doing just fine after I added that new fan for the export of hot graphics air.
I am seeing that the processor is still too hot for gaming, and my next step if this does not work out would be to buy a better processor fan.

</font>