http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/...ans/index.html

http://spikedhumor.com/articles/5291..._Computer.html

My first PC project, and definitely worth the bragging rights.

lol omg.. the only thing i can think of is how in the world will you change your hardware with all the oil!

mmmmm....deep fried computers... [img]graemlins/homer.gif[/img]

A very impressive machine... scientifically assembled, too :D

It's a cool project, but no offence. It's been done before (many times)

It's a cool project, but no offence. It's been done before (many times) </font>[/QUOTE]its not that its been done many times, but HE is DOING it that impresses me [img]smile.gif[/img]

edit: i mean.. who would like to see a nice running PC to be drowned in oil.. wooo..

[ 09-13-2006, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: Harkoliar ]

Good work, dude, but I sure wish you the best of luck. It's all well and good until the oil gets sullied. Be super extra careful.

? Would it really work in climates where the average day temperature exceeds 30°C? I can see it working in cooler climates, where the air temperature helps to dissipate the heat from the oil, but not in the hotter regions.

Not to mention part replacements...

It will help in any climate. As long as the pc will run when cooled normally, it will run better when cooled this way. All you're really doing is making the heat transfer more efficient.

Cool idea but I'd worry about the oil going rancid... cause that'd doesn't smell good. If you want to avoid rancid oil and improve your overclocking just cool the oil to refrigerator temps (not enough to have it solidify on you though). That would be some cool tech.

You could also fill it with an inert fluorocarbon. That way you could have the hard drive and power supply in the case as well, unless I am mistaken (of course, both should be sealed). The fluorocarbon has good heat transfer capabilities so couple that with an aluminum case and you have a silent and efficient computer.

How about mercury? Would that work? I think a glass box filled with liquid silvery stuff would look awesome. Especially with some bubbles coming from the bottom to show that it's actually liquid.

Right up to the point when the floor is covered with a thick layer of something both poisonous and very hard to sweep up.

Yes, go ahead and fill your computer with a conductive metal :D
EDIT: Fluorocarbons are banned, no?

[ 09-13-2006, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Bozos of Bones ]

I am not sure if they are completely banned or if they can be used in a completely sealed system. I suspect they are banned, but we have played around with them at work (we sealed a mock-processor in a small chamber and filled it with a liquid fluorocarbon--it worked like a champ).

Mercury is a metal... And as such will conduct electricity. So it'll short everything out, and completely fry the computer.

So will all liquid salts.

<font color="cyan">It's idiotic.

How can people think this will work? It's basic physics. I'm an engineer, trust me. If that computer is left on any length of time, it'll fry.

Yes it will be quiet, but it'll fry.

The oil will retain the heat. There is no way for the heat to dissapate. It's like having a car without a radiator. It's stupid.

There is no oil flow to help with cooling either, the oil sits there motionless. It needs passing over a cold surface so heat exchange can take place, removing the heat from the oil.

Sorry, but im laughing at those of you who actually think this works.</font>

Until now, I had assumed there is a separate radiator tank somewhere, but your post made me actually read the THW page. They really didn't install a radiator anywhere. So yeah, that would not work like that, as the whole case would reach a temperature equilibrium, and then you'd get rench fries ot of your motherboard.

<font color="cyan">Ok, Bozo has seen sense.

Anyone else wanna retract their "awesome" statements?

Lol.</font>

Well I never made one :D

Anyways, the systems that I have seen built like this have used a refrigeration system that cycles and cools the Oil. Unfortunantly the thing is then as big as a house and weighs about as much too.

<font color="cyan">You could use a radiator or an intercooler.

Both would work, but would require pumps for the flow of oil and water/air (depending which way around you'd want it). The oil has to move to release the heat. The water/air in the radiator/intercooler has to be cycled as well, to release the heat.

Basically this is not a feesable idea. It takes too much aux equipment. Minimum of two pumps etc.

A refrigeration plant would also work, but then, you need even MORE stuff. Condersor, Compressor, Expansion Valve and evaporator. Plus the refrigerant itself.

And you could either have the oil flowing through a refriegerator, or make the housing the fridge.

Either way, another stupid/pointless/expensive idea.

Sorry Amphetimine Machine, if you actually decide to make this your an idiot.

</font>

[ 09-13-2006, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: Lavindathar ]

I'm not doing this with anything seriously valuable.
I'm just taking apart a Dell from 2000, and running it in oil.

1.Couldn't you install a couple high tension fans at the bottom, and then put have one side of the case be aluminum?

2.A test was run by another enthusiast. He ran it for 48 hours, and no overheating. It managed to stay at around 110 degrees F.

Exactly!

Unless you have a truck and a forklift, you are gonna have trouble showing it off to people :D

EDIT: This is how it should be done [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 09-13-2006, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Hivetyrant ]

<font color="cyan">I imagine on this test, that he didn't do anything constructive with it.

I reckon yes, a PC could run the OS for 48 hours. It won't have done anything else useful.

Play Oblivion on it, I reckon it will last 15mins. Most games it'll fry within the hour.

And no, fans won't work. You can't place a fan inside the "tank" as if you fix it at the top it will only cool the top. The heat rising from the parts will negate this. And still the bottom will fry.

You can't place fans inside the tank at the bottom, as you'll just churn oil around. No heat dissapating.

And if I understand you correctly, you mean have one side aluminium, and then cool this side with the two fans? If so, it still wont work.

Firstly, there is still no flow of oil. You may have slight heat exchange from the oil to the aluminium, but it will be minimal. It will only cool the oil right next to the aluminium, leaving 90% of the tank still roasting.

I doubt the aluminium would be cooled enough by the fans anyway. I think oil at say 80 degrees C or whatever (and yes it probably would rise that high over time) would still overpower one sheet of cool aluminium.

Whichever way you dress this up, it's a stupid idea unless you want to spend a lot of time on it, and have a cool looking pc with a massive set of auxy pumps etc, that would also cost a fortune.

Sorry dude.

[B]NICE LINK HIVETYRANT. YES THATS HOW IT SHOUD BE DONE. BUT I WOULDNT WANT TO ESTIMATE THE COST. IT WOULD BE VERY HIGH. PLUS LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THE AUXY SETUP. YOU CAN SEE THE PUMP SYSTEM AS WELL. HUGE. AT LEAST THIS GUY HAS DONE IT PROBABLY, WITH A PROPER CYCLE INCLUDING PUMP.</font>

[ 09-13-2006, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Lavindathar ]

Not a big deal, I'm just taking apart a no longer used computer and submerging it in oil, just as my first step into building more exotic boxes.

Well it sure would make an interesting pc anyway.

<font color="cyan">If you want to do something cool, either use a pump cooling system, or just make a really good case with 2 or 3 really good fans. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

I'm not doing it for cooling. I just want to try it. It has nothing to do with cooling.

<font color="cyan">Why?</font>

It will work just fine... there doesn't need to be a pump to move the oil, thermodynamics and convection will take care of that. If the dissipation through the top and case is insufficient to maintain a reasonable temp you add a passive cooling option like a passive radiator.

You don't need active components for heat transer... all they do is reduce the required cross section. Heat transfer into the oil is far more efficient on the board level... then heat transfer out of the oil into the environment will depend on the case material and overall surface area. The reason it'll work is that there's a LOT of surface area even without using a radiator.

And next time before insulting all the posters on a thread you may want to think about the problem a bit! [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="cyan">Why?</font> </font>[/QUOTE]why not? its his machine, time and effort [img]smile.gif[/img] give him some slack.

Physics, shmysics. It's submerged. It looks awesome. AND NOW YOU SAY IT COULD NOT POSSIBLY WORK!? The universe better stop staring at its own belly button and rearrange itself to accommodate this. And raise the speed of light while it's at it. And make space habitable.

I guess you've never heard of

a) cars without radiators (VW bug and Porche 911 prime examples)

b) convection cooling

This works. The oil cools itself with convection airflow across the top of the oil. The oil cools the parts by convection flow across the hot parts. (you can see this in the video - look at the "heat waves" moving in the oil)

They ran 3Dmark05 - that stresses the machine as much as Oblivion or any other game.

BTW, thermal equilibrium was reached at 40C - that is to say, when the temperature reached 40C it didn't rise any further. This is better than my machine running with enhanced cooling - it runs at 45C.

Fans won't work, but not for the reasons you specify. Fans won't turn very fast in fluid when they're designed to turn in air - too much drag. This will ramp the current requirements up significantly. In fact it will behave much like a short circuit and the fans will likely burn out.

In fact, if you'd read the article you'd know all these things.

Tell me, Mr.Engineer man:

1) how many watts does the computer in the article dissipate?

2) What is the limit (how many watts) can oil cooling dissipate to air without a radiator?

Demonstrate how the answers invalidate the experiment shown on Tom's Hardware.

Provide proof, not conjecture.

<font color="cyan">Firstly the article didn't load for me, so I never read it. I watched a video thats it.

I still stand by my statement, it won't last.

On the topic of cars, Old Porsche's and VW Beetles are air cooled. That computer still isn't air cooled.

I don't believe that convection through a plastic case is enough. Or even a glass case. After time, I still believe that it will heat up to the point where the cooling is lost.

And i still stand by the fact the only way to get that running properly is with a cooling system.

Plus if it's only air cooling with motionless oil, the key being motionless, I don't think it will dissapate enough heat.

And don't slate my credentials, I work on 66,000BHP engines. I know about physics and heat. I had to study thermodynamics at college.</font>

DINGDING! Correct, the vw/porche is aircooled - no radiator - but, SURPRISE the computer is aircooled. All cooling systems ultimatey rely on transfer to air as their cooling medium, whatever intermediate means they use.

I've already answered your question. Now answer mine, or admit defeat.

:rolleyes:

It does have a cooling system - a convection cooling oil bath. If you'd read the article, you'd know that the primary cooling transfer isn't through the case - it's to air at the top.

The oil isn't motionless, hot oil rises, cool oil drops - the exact same behaviour you see with air, water, or any other medium used to cool something.

Now, I'll get more specific with the questions in an attempt to lead you back to reason:

1) Specifically how many watts/cm^2 can air cooling remove from oil (or any other surface, such as an engine block)?

2) What is the total heat output of the computer used to test the oil bath?

If you can't answer both these questions, then you cannot refute me here.

[ 09-14-2006, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Sir Krustin ]

<font color="cyan">Why?</font> </font>[/QUOTE]Because it will make me happy.
Why does everyone think that everything should have a reason?

<font color=8fbc8f>Vaugly reminds me of a fartcan on a pink car I've seen somewhere recently. Some people!

Just one minor detail to mention, a normal CPU will run happy at 104*F /40*C. If doing this at home be sure to read the last line and use the recommended liquid of choice, "motor oil". It will hardly have any heat strains on it what-so-ever, and will last for hours without needing a scheduled change out, or a reminder note from the local pit-stop. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

<font color="cyan">Why?</font> </font>[/QUOTE]Because it will make me happy.
Why does everyone think that everything should have a reason? </font>[/QUOTE]That'll teach you to ever make anything again and speak about it! :D

<font color="cyan">Ok, so the oil is moving in a cycle and cooling to the air at the top. Still doesn't sound to me like it will do enough cooling.

And a Porsche/Beetle has air flow across the engine, which is how it's cooled. Just seems to me that the air in this computer case will be stagnant, and not get rid of enough heat.

And i don't know the exact figures your asking me, so I can still have an opinion [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Even if I am wrong lmao!</font>

Certainly you'd want to use a light oil... but with a temp differential between air and cpu of 30+ degrees you'd definitely get plenty of circulation.

If you knew the ambient temp when toms ran their test you could do a seat of the pants calculation to figure out how close to the limit they were at full load.

The only thing I'd change in their design is that I'd seal the top and use a heat exchanger to extract the heat. A couple aluminum radiators with copper heat pipes would do the trick nicely. I think you could find a table that would tell you how big the air side radiator would need to be to dissipate a couple hundred watts of heat. The oil side radiator would be relatively smaller obviously and I imagine there's a table somewhere for those too.

[ 09-15-2006, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Thoran ]