I started thinking of this when a mate of mine claimed the All Blacks are the biggest sporting brand in the world. I know they've a 70% success rate in all their games since the 1900s but I'm not so sure. They're the biggest in rugby, no doubt. But the biggest in the world? Don't know about that.

It could be any one of these:

Manchester United
Real Madrid
New York Yankees
NZ All Blacks
Chicago Bulls (about 5 years ago?)

Anyone have any views?

Ferrari, heard of and known in pretty much every country in the world unlike the ones listed above which are known only in certain spheres.

Dunno, Manchester United might be better known, especially in the East.

The majority of the USA has never heard of Man United. East and West hemispheres have all heard of Ferrari, heh, even non sporting women types have heard of Ferrari. Man United don't even come close... [img]smile.gif[/img]

P.S Interesting mini riot at Man U last night after Glazer quietly sent his boys to check out his new acquisition. The 300 odd supporters made their feelings known. Wonder what his lads will tell him regarding their popularity. Can't wait to see if he ever has the balls to turn up here himself, especially amongst 60,000 crazed Manx.

Make that 60,001

From the list you've posted, it's the NY Yankee's. However, maybe not everyone knows what the cap they're wearing stands for.

Ferarri
Manchester United

So the Glazers finally decides to show themself. How brave they are. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Nope, not brave. The visit by Glazers sons wasn't announced, they tried to slip in by the back door. It got leaked and 300 odd mental Mancunians turned up to say hello. Had it been announced or known they were coming I think there would have been considerably more Man U fans and three less sons there. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I sooo want to see what happens when/if Glazer senior turns up at Old Trafford.

Until this board I wouldn't have even know Manchester United was a sports team...might have figured it for an Airline company! LOL

So Charlie's right, I think- Ferari is really well known even to us non-sport following US feminine sorts! :D And YANKEES for sure!

What about logos like Nike or Reebok? Or are you only interested in those generated by an actual sporting team?

[ 06-30-2005, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

Yeah... I would say Nike or Adidas [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Yep, you can bet lots of people, specially small children, in in Asia and South America know Nike...

[img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm not talking about apparel, but of sporting teams and their branding. So Ferrari would count, technically, though their branding doesn't come from purely being a sporting team, more so from the fact that they sell some seriously pretty machinery.

As Link said, the US teams have huge branding power in the US and in terms of merchandising they have a lot of global reach, but aside from basketball (which is a global sport) the other big sporting team brands in the US (Yankees, Cowboys, etc) all play sports which are US-centric, not global. So a lot of people buy the Yankees or the Dodgers cap because it looks cool, not necessarily because they know who those teams are.

I'd have thought the two at the top of the list from a GLOBAL point of view would have to be football teams - Man U and Real Madrid. They're known throughout Europe, South America, Asia and Africa, and even if their penetration is poorer in the US, it's probably greater in the US than the Yankees et al have in Africa, Asia, etc...

It was either Real Madrid (I think it was them) or Man Utd (definately one of the two) who actually claimed this title, or something very similar. I would probably say Real Madrid would be one of the biggest, as although basketball is popular, here in Europe only people who actually like the game would have heard of the various teams. Baseball doesn't really concern us in Britain, and I've yet to meet someone who actually follows the game.

<font color="cyan">I'd say Ferrari can't count, as they made their name by selling their cars first and foremost, the sports division came later.

I'd have to go with Manchester United, even over Real Madrid. It's definately not the New York Yankees, as baseball is only really popular in the US.

Real Madrid are popular, yes, but Man Utd have the whole of the far east in their pockets, a lot of Europe, a high percentage of England, South America, (now big in Portugal with Ronaldo), Ji Hi will increase revenue and awareness from South Korea etc...And now, Glazer may even make them very popular in the USA.

I know I'm a Man U fan, but they are (were lol) the richest football club in the world. That pertty much means the most famous. Plus, football is probably the most globally watched sport (bar Formula 1).

So i'd say Man Utd!

Just have to see what Glazer does to us!</font>

Ferrari made his/their name first and very much foremost through motor racing, not by selling cars such as Henry Ford did. Scuderia Ferrari started in 1929 (with the prancing horse logo) as a team sponsoring drivers and building racing cars. Independant sports car manafacture didn't start until the late 1940s. Their logo comes to them from purely sporting means, infact the actual logo came about after winning a particular race. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="cyan">I still disagree.

I'm not arguing that Ferrari started by being a sports team, but in the modern day world they are not remembered for that, or for their F1 team now. Most people know them because of their cars, such as the F40, 360M, F50 etc...

</font>

Real Madrid, Nike, Donald Trump. :D

This was the reason I thought maybe Ferrari shouldn't be included - because then you'd have to include Mercedez Benz, McLaren, Ford etc with that as well. I was thinking more traditional "team sports" like basketball, football, rugby, baseball, cricket, hockey, etc...

1. Who? What do they play? Sounds like a subway station.
2. Who? What do they play? Sounds like a wine.
3. Ok, from up North, hit a ball with a stick from Louisville, KY. Silly Yanks.
4. Who? What do they play? Sounds like a shoe, maybe from Nike.
5. Ok. Who really cares?
6. Add in Ferrari, and we all can say F1, Shell, and Michael Schumacher!

Who? I see F1 on my keyboard, Shell is a company that (over)charges me for gas, and Schumacher? Wasn't he a jockey? Oh, wait - that was Shoemaker... :D

Manchester United IMO, without a doubt (however... possibly Real). Just because America hasn't heard of them, doesn't mean they don't exist. :rolleyes:

I'm gonna say Real Madrid, because I've only briefly heard of Manchester United. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I'd have to say the NY Yankees.

Even though I hate them with every living cell that makes up my body.

<font color="cyan">Ok, so as it's Memmy's thread we agree that Ferrari aren't included.

Regarding the NZ All Blacks, they are a big team yes. But, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't the All Blacks NZ's national rugby team, the one's that do the Haka, with Jonah Lomu etc?

You can't include a national team in this, as it's not a business. It's like saying any national football team, like Brazil, Argentina, England etc.

Regarding the NY Yankees, as I said, baseball is only really popular in one country. America. NY Yankees are more famous for their clothing brand outside the US, rather than the baseball team. It's probably like the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, every one has heard of them because of the film, and the shirts were cool back in the day.

For you American's that say Real Madrid, I'd have to say your very much mistaken. Real Madrid are a huge team, but biggest sporting brand? No. They are famous for winning trophys, yes. But, Barcelona are just as big of a team in Spain. Real Madrid are well known due to the signing of big players, for ludicrous amounts of money - Beckham, Figo, Zidane, Ronaldo etc. But, they are in debt by around 300million Euros, and the government keeps bailing them out.

IMPO, and hopefully I've stated enough facts/opinions as to why, Manchester United are the only contender.

They are famous worldwide, with the exception of the USA (because Soccer ain't that famous), but with Malcolm Glazers take over bid, they will now probably conquer that soon...they are the richest football club in the world - FACT. Maybe the Glazer takeover will effect that, we don't know. But, they are the most well known football team in the world, and as football is the most recognised sport worldwide (once again, with the exception of the US), then I'd have to say Man Utd.

I can't see how anyone else can think otherwise?</font>

I added them for this reason: Click here

<font color="cyan">Agreed, they are managed carefully and have lots of sponsorships on them.

But, I bet shirt sales wise, the Brazil national team sells more shirts...everyone owns a Brazil top.... [img]graemlins/lol.gif[/img] </font>

No we don't agree!
We ALL agree that Ferrari should be listed!

Now all of this wonderful stuff you rambled on about above? Is worthless! The question is "Sporting Team Brand". So, Ferrari is known world wide in every country by BRAND.

As Memnoch's link points out, the discussion goes stratight to WHAT the team is known for. It's trade marks etc. When I served as a peace keeper in Kosovo, the common folks knew F1, and had red hats, with the black stallion, and knew that Ferrari was a high performance Formula 1 team. None of them wore anything about a soccer club, a baseball team, or basketball. But they knew Ferrari. Granted, they did enjoy a game of soccer with the troops, but they didn't plan their life off of the sport. But give them room on a back road, and an old Renault, and hey, look out F1.

'I can't see how anyone else can think otherwise?'

I agree as well Felix. I answered the question as I read it, The biggest sporting team brand in the world.

Ferrari are known primarily through motor racing, as a sports team, not through motor car production contrary to Lav's belief.

I also believe that within the context of the original question it is totally right and proper to include other car manafacturers, (and motorcycles and any other sports teams you can think of). We're looking for the worlds biggest sporting team brand no?

Regarding other car manafacturers -

Benz was not a sporting team, he was a pioneer engine manafacturer, his daughters name was Mercedes, hence Mercedes Benz, hence he's out of the equation. They evolved into sports but are not known for it.

Ford was a manafacturer before sport, hence he's out too. They evolved into sports but are not known for it.

McLaren deserves consideration, a brilliant and succesful sporting team...I defy you to tell me their logo from memory.

Alfa Romeo (where Ferrari started) are certainly worth consideration...again, not many will immediately know the logo. (They, unlike Ferrari, are now better known for manafacture but are one of the oldest sporting teams re motor racing).

I know where you're coming from though Mem' maybe the question would have been better understood if it was "biggest field sports brand". You know, I'd almost be tempted to throw in the Harlem Globetrotters in that case, but I'm not sure they have a "brand" as such.

I still mantain that IMHO Ferrari are the biggest and most recognised sporting brand in the world.

P.S Memnoch. Did you ever get your Alfa woes sorted out? As a professional mechanic I was very interested in what happened re your case, seemed to me you was getting shat upon.

[ 07-03-2005, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Charlie ]

1. Real Madrid
2. AC Milan
3. Juventus
4. Barcelona
5. Manchester United
6. Galatasary SK (actually was in the year 2000)
7. Chicago Bulls(w Michael Jordan)
8. Liverpool (now)
9. FC Inter
10. FC Bayern

Well, after 7 months of bickering, I ended up accepting a deal where we split the costs. I had to resolve it one way or another because I was moving to the US, and I didn't want it dragging on. I could have pursued it in court and possibly recovered the full cost ($15k) but apparently I'd have only gotten maybe 60-70% of my legal costs, which would have gone into the range of $10-$15K (as it was I ended up paying about $3k for legal). So the total cost to me was $11k, plus the fact that I didn't have my car for 7 months.

The amusing thing is that their entire first defence was that I hadn't put enough oil in (even though I'd put in a litre every 2 weeks and had the documentation to support that). When the independent forensic investigator finally had a look at it (that cost $$$ too) his findings were that it was not oil failure, but a blown cylinder head that had caused it. Alfa then changed their defence to "excessive overspeeding/overrevving of the engine". They're a bunch of bloody clowns. :rolleyes:

At the end I had to go for the most pragmatic economic solution - though there was a part of me that wanted to go to court anyway and punish them for what they did even though the cost to me (financial and stress wise) would've been greater. The way the whole thing was handled on their part has completely soured me against this brand and this company (in Australia anyway, but probably in other parts of the world as well). Their policy is to blame and accuse their customers and to shaft them if possible. I can't imagine BMW or Mercedes or Audi doing this to their customers - and we're not talking cheap machinery here, this is a $60000 luxury sports coupe that apparently breaks down when you rev it above 4500rpm. And their warranty is meaningless as it doesn't get honoured and it's then up to people to fight to get it honoured, which will inevitably cost them money.

Needless to say, I'm selling it and will not be getting an Alfa EVER again. Sorry to derail the thread a bit. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Pfft, that old chestnut, wear em out, if they don't give up then minimise the company costs... sickening.

More sickening that it took a major company/builder to resort to a 3rd party to make a diagnosis on one of their own products that any skilled mechanic would most likely have made in a single day. Sorry to hear you got crapped on Mem'.

My advice...Buy a Japanese car...or maybe a Ferrari. ;)

Mems, not to keep off the topic but that's rough, having to take what you could because they were completely dishonest about it all! Don't blame you at all for not wanting to buy from them again! I certainly wouldn't!


Charlie, I totally agree with your assesment- seems like they did just string him along, hoping he'd give up. Also sounds like the problem should have been found and fixed ages before the outside mechanic looked at it.

That's crapola big time dude! However and unfortunately, you are not alone in this kind of manufacturer / customer relationship. I know of a dude that has his oil changed regularly at the local 'Pennzoil Quick Lube', book stamped etc.. The motor locked up on him, and the first (Very First) thing Ford did was look at his maintenance records. He did not have any on file from Ford, therefore it was his fault, improperly maintained etc.. Needless to say, 9 months later, and however many engines that in fact locked up from an improper oil pump from the Ford truck plant, recessed with Ford providing an engine, and him paying the labor. It's a sad time indeed.

I would have to say either Manchester United or the Chicago Bulls (c'mon guys - is their ANYONE who hasn't heard of Michael Jordan). In fact, I might give them the edge.

And for what it's worth a LOT of Americans have heard of Man U. [img]smile.gif[/img]

New York :confused: