I'm currently embroiled in a legal dispute with Alfa Romeo which is taking up pretty much all of my non-work (and a fair chunk of my work) time. Basically my Alfa's engine blew up and needs to be replaced at a cost of $13,000-$15,000 and the morons are refusing to cover it under warranty because they claim I haven't been putting oil in it. I've challenged their claim by showing documentation that I've bought 22 litres of oil to top up the engine this year alone - that's a LITRE of oil every two weeks or every 800kms. I've never heard of a car using up this much oil. :mad:

To make things worse this is a lease vehicle so I'm still paying the lease cost even though I'm not using the vehicle, and I'm already starting to incur fringe benefits tax on it as I'm not putting the required kilometres as it's currently immobile in the shop.

I've tried to work this out with first the dealership and then with the Alfa organisation but they're basically shuffling me around, so I've decided to seek legal advice and will most probably litigate. It will cost around $5,000 - $10,000 but I'm prepared to pay whatever I need to pay to get justice done as this is BS. :mad:

So guys, please understand if you don't see me around now and then, this is a fairly serious issue for me.

Here's a copy of the letter I wrote to the President of Alfa Romeo here in OZ.

I engaged a lawyer's services today and it looks like I can't sue Alfa Romeo, because I don't own the vehicle - Custom Fleet (the leasing company) does. Therefore I don't have a business relationship with Alfa. So essentially I have to sue Custom Fleet (who I do have a business relationship with) and then get them to chase Alfa Romeo. Which is probably why Alfa Romeo have been dicking me around. :mad: The annoying thing is the lease company (which I'm paying $2000/month lease and FBT payments on and they should be working on MY behalf) have hung me out to dry on this issue and they've basically taken Alfa's side in the matter and have washed their hands of the whole affair.

Anyway, I really am caught between a rock and a hard place here - I'm paying $2k a month for an unusable vehicle and am starting to incur fringe benefits tax because I'm not driving the requisite kms for it (in OZ you pay fringe benefits tax which is proportional to the number of k's you drive - so if you drive 40,000kms a year you pay 7% of the cost of the vehicle, if you drive 25-40000kms you pay 11%, etc, all the way up to 26% if you drive less than 15000kms. I'm on the 11% bracket at the moment but if I don't use the car till the end of the FBT year (March 05) I'll drop to the 26% bracket, which means a lump sum payment of $8000 for missing my kilometres. :mad: So unless I get this car back on the road I'll have to pay this amount as it's a govt tax, and have to then claim it afterward as part of my costs. :mad:

Speaking of costs, looks like the legal costs will be about $5000-$10,000 if it goes to court, but may take a few months. I'm thinking of paying the $15000 to get a new engine (the old one will still be there) just to get the car back on the road so I can make use of it and get some value out of my lease and FBT payments and then incorporating this cost into my lawsuit.

It's a feckin nightmare, guys. The worst thing that's happened to me in life thus far. And it's taking up so much of my time, I'm stressing about it, worrying about, both on and off work.

So if you don't see me around, this is why. I feel like I'm in a John Grisham novel. :(

[ 12-03-2004, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

Geez. I hate to hear this. I know how proud you were to get that AR.

But may I make a couple suggestions for you to keep in mind?

First...see if there is ANY possible way to apply for an exemption on those fringe benefits taxes since you can prove it's not that you are parking it as a "luxury" weekend vehicle but that it is INOPERABLE. (the jerks)

Secondly, if it does, indeed, go to court make sure the attorney ADDS IN the "court costs & attorney fees" in the settlement/judgment (assuming you win ;) I'm ever an optimist). This way, you may have to pay that attorney something up front at *first*, but make sure you recoup the expense in the end. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I do hope all goes well, hon. You don't deserve to be treated so poorly for a defective product. I mean, it shouldn't truly hurt AR's image any if they simply admit they had a car make it off the line with a defect. That kind of thing *does* happen.

OH! Something else to consider (but ask your attorney about) is bringing the issue to the attention of the media. That's usually a VERY effective method in the States in getting a company to come across and do the right thing whether they want to or not. Bad publicity = $0.00 for their business. ;)

I'm considering that...I had been holding off while negotiating in good faith, but now that I'm pretty sure they're dicking me around I've told the lawyer I've got a friend who works for Channel 9 here in Sydney (they do A Current Affair) and I'm thinking of going to the media. But I need to sell it as an "investigative reporter" story, which means doing a bit of groundwork to build a case, etc. That's definitely an option if they continue to drag their feet.

sorry to hear that mate :( . hope things will be better for you.

As I've said before, sorry to see you going through so much trouble when they should just fix the car. Maybe your friend can get the whole thing brought up on tv and the dealer and manufacturer will make it right. Maybe the THOUGHT of it being on tv will make the sit up and take notice... if your friend started asking questions of them, they might get nervous. ;)

What kind of car are you leasing after this one? I'm betting I know what kind you're inclined to avoid. :D

I'm not getting another Alfa, that's for sure. Basically Alfas look pretty but don't work. :rolleyes: I don't know, maybe a Mini. They're made by BMW so they've got quality, and they look very cool. :D

Keep us posted on the whole thing when you can. And get pics of the next one.. we'll compare pimp...err ...Memnochmobiles. :D :D

Hard luck mate! That sucks truly.

Be sure to tell us what Alfa's President says...if he doesn't co-operate then I think you should start going media etc. Maybe you can get a Panarama issue type thing on them. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] But seriously, don't let them walk over you whatever you do.

Ugh, that sucks, Mario. I sincerely hope things will get better for you. There's a big difference between an Alfa and a Mini, though. The main one being that a Mini doesn't have the size to take a lot of girls with you :D

BTW Have you got any idea what Harks is up to? I haven't heard from him in a while [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

I think Harks is caught up with his addiction to Evercrack...Opps I mean Everquest LOL.

Hope it all works out for you Mem's!

[ 12-03-2004, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: T-D-C ]

Yuck. Sorry to hear that, Mems.

Hope you get a good lawyer and a good judge. Both Alfa and your lease company are just screwing you around and acting without any semblence of good faith or responsible business practice.

As another suggestion, try out the Better Business Bureau (or its closest OZ equivalent). Maybe they can give you some tips, or at the least you can scream bloody murder.

As I said , hope it'll all work out. :(
Keep your head up Geniebabe, and lots of good luck!

I have 1 word for you "HONDA" :D :D

That's disgusting! A car like that and that sort of service.. I can only say "HONDA" :D :D

That really and truly sucks, Mario.

You might take a look at your leasing contract to see what the language in there says about performance. It appears at this point that the car is not performing, and you may be able to break the lease based on that and give it back to them. Then let them try to bring you into court.

I concur that public opinion is a good court to be trying this in. Is there a reporter in the local newspaper who does local stories? That might be someone to champion your cause.

Keep us posted... 'cause here I thought you were slaving over the IW servers in your new assistant webmaster role :D

*edit* just thought of something else... a valuable ally for you in this process would be any local competitor of Alfa. Imagine what they could do with your story... local man savaged by Alfa, saved by Honda... or whoever.

Or the leasing company, too. Any of their competitors might jump at the chance.

[ 12-03-2004, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Bungleau ]

I'm sure i made some kind of cynical joke about AR in the past, but that wasn't just for the hell of it. Two of my mates had one, and my bro too. Granted...They look flashy, and they ARE fast, but they SO suck. I don't even wanna start up this whole discussion anymore, since i've said enough about AR, any more words are wasted, and so is your money.

Sorry to hear this dude, i wish you wisdom in the time to come.

...makes a person wanna pack up and move to Memnoch Vale! :D

Sorry to hear about your pimp mobile Mario :(


Hundreds of licensed aircraft engineers and pilots ECT at Qantas drive lease cars with the same financial set-up (though using Commonwealth bank leasing company) as your good self. In fact about a year ago I nearly entered into a similar agreement to get a new Magna. To offer you some small satisfaction, if you agree, I shall post the above letter with you’re name removed on every notice board through the company (workforce 30,000+). A lot of BMW -Mercs and Alfa's are leased by our staff and this will have a direct effect on Alfalfa future.

My boss has a deep understanding of the issues involved in leasing and I will talk to him at work tonight. The problem is a clear-cut case of your lease company not providing a useable car.

Two questions ....

Did the oil low light ever come on?

Did the lease company ever get informed of the problems so they could take up the issue with Alf Alfa?

...if the oil was ruuning low all the time, why didn't you go in there and tell them to stick it up their arses?

Go right ahead.


Nope.

Yes, and they basically just accepted what Alfa said about the warranty being voided and so have decided to not do anything about it. And why would they? It's an easy way out for them. Never mind about their customer satisfaction. :mad:

[ 12-04-2004, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

Why don't you post some 800 numbers for them. I'm sure most of us wouldn't mind giving a call and asking what the deal is with that. Maybe we can tie up their customer service dept. (if they have one) for a good while. We don't hav eto give names or anything, just ask about the situation and why it's being handled so poorly.

Ooooh boy, they sure are enjoying this!

They've hit the jackpot here. Chill out and relax (or Chillax as we call it), and then strike swiftly. Like you said you're losing money... :( The sad part is, you were willing to put up with the lousy qualities of Alfa and still they dick you around. That's quite a pain in the arse indeed.

I hope you still have time to smile [img]smile.gif[/img]

OK your wish is my command (hey that’s your line) [img]smile.gif[/img]

Clarification question ...Did the leasing company ever know about the problems with the Alfa BEFORE the car blew up?

Was all the oil loss internal (burnt) or was there a visible leak?

Owners manual, did it say check the oil every week (say along with tyre pressure ect) OR every time you use the car

Did the owners manual say, have a full service every 20,000 km OR does it give a list of tasks that need doing at set Km (20,000 then 40,000) OR is it a mixture of both?

Did the garage after the service, in which you brought it in early, put a sticker on your window screen or similar to say when the next service was? (common practice) Did they give you anything in writing to say when the next service was? (this is going to be the crucial area)

How did you notice that the car was running low on oil when new?

Has anybody else, through owners clubs/ internet, had simalar problems with the engine. Was this type of defect a known problem with Alfa Romeo?

I'd take it to a non Alpha mechanic, and get it fixed. But you don't want to actually void your warrenty before the court case.
You could allways just tow it to a hill and well... :D
but seriously, best wishes with everything, i really hope you get a return, or if it does go to court, best of luck, i really hope you succeed.
May your plight at very least prevent me (and most of the Quantas workforce ;) ) from ever buying an Alpha.
Best wishes!
i really hope it work out

No, as it was always handled between me and the garage.

No leaks whatsoever that I could see. It must've been burning it.

Owners manual says to check the oil "on a regular basis".

The maintenance schedule basically says "20000/40000/60000/etc for full services. It also said to do your own maintenance with respect to topups, refills, etc. There's a lot of conditions to the warranty it seems like.

I'm sure it did, since the car's been in their garage for six weeks who knows what it says now. :rolleyes:

Through routine oil checks noticed I was always having to top it up. Then at 15000kms it developed a noise which caused me to take it in for service earlier than scheduled (this was where it was not made clear to me that they wanted me to take it in at 35000kms instead of 40000kms).

The engine oil usage for this engine varies wildly, some cars don't use up hardly any oil, others require regular topups. None of the people I sought feedback on at the Alfa websites had heard of a car using up as much oil as mine was, though, and that there was no external leak.

Did you not notice that the car exhaust was wery smokey when you used the car? It must have been a hell of smoke cloud behind the car if it used that much oil and then you should know something was wrong and checked it out asap. Think about this too if you end up in court...they will SURE ask about that!
Anyway good luck Memmy [img]smile.gif[/img]

..shame you're not in the US. you'd ikill 'em in court. Greef, pain and suffering, lack of sex..

I'm sure Memnoch would have a hard time proving the latter Variol [img]tongue.gif[/img]


Maybe getting a new engine is not the only answer, Have you had a third party give you a quote on a rebuild rather than replacement?

for your info the copys of the letter, with the names removed, under the title "Dont buy or lease an Alfa untill you read this" will find it's way onto noticeboards across the company starting next week!

Sending best wishes youre way mate. Just phone me if I can help in any way. [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img]

John, maybe you could fly a banner over Oz with a caption such as "Support Memnoch, dump Alpha"

It would get peoples attention...if nothing else [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Also, on the other side you could have something like
"Support Johnny, send beer to..."

That would keep another member happy :D

Oh, sorry, thought I heard somebody call it a "pimp Mobile" earlier. :D

The ONLY way the oil can be gone is! it goes into the water "the top thingy is gone) then the wather should be whithe as milk, the otherway is in the exhaust if the oil rings is gone then it will be a seroious smoke thingy behind the car or someone have "steal" the oil. ?
I think in this prase Memmy you dont know anything about engines i give you a clue the oil is IMPORTANT how much it uses and so on be SURE you have used the right type of oil to , you cant use food oil you most be using motor oil. I dont say more before i know how good you know anything about engines!

And to say i know the "most of how an engine work i have repared engines for 20 years! [img]smile.gif[/img] I do my best in your case Memmy

[ 12-06-2004, 06:25 AM: Message edited by: Megabot ]

I was using Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40, which is supposed to be recommended by Ferrari and Porsche. Costs a fortune too.

Well one quick thing about the petrol that was put in at the start of the cars life was it just the wrong grade or did the put disel in and it was suppose to be regular un-leaded. Putting the wronf fuel can kill a engine or excell the death of it. I would try that angle with the lease and put the blame back on the dealer.

And 5w-40 seems a little low I would have thought 10w-30 for a warmer area of the world. Here in Canada in the dead of winter we use 5w-30.

With Mack attack on that one ... A 15/40 is more than fine but then again I have never owned a sports car :D But a 5/40 would not harm the engine in any way.

Regarding the rebuild Memnoch I would seriously get a quote on it... unless the engine is blown up as in hitting a land mine then the garage is taking the piss.

Personaly I would have taken legal advice as soon as they said the warranty was in breach, I'd have started at personal leveled at the mamager and worked my way up the company..

But I'm just spitefull.

You've got record of past problems with the vehical and records showing exsessive oil use..

find out what's the most you can sting them for then add emotional destress and loss of use of the vehical all the little things you'd not normaly think about.. At the end of the day you want the vehical fixed, yourself absolved of blame and all the costs incurred by this little escapade covered.

5w/40 is pretty light, shouldn't do any real harm though, better for your engine on a cold day/starting the engine from cold.
Personally I use 20w/40, but my car is burning a bit of oil so i'm thinking i'll move to 60w.
What did the manual say about the oil weight?