I was skimming through the TV channels the other day, and came upon a talk show that was discussing the usage of medicinal marijuana for chronic pain relief with terminal patients. I'm sure some of you may have seen this particular show, with several guests promoting the usage of it, and some experts who believe that it needs to remain illegal.

Since it was a US based show, they were discussing the particular US laws and how it relates to the topic, but I think we can open this to a worldwide discussion.

Regardless of my views on it, I find it interesting that even though the individual US states can deem it legal for medicinal purposes, the Federal government still has the right to arrest overturn that decision and make arrests. [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] It's also interesting to note that the US Federal government has been issuing it to several individuals in the US for some time now.

Being from a law enforcement background my views on this are very conservative, however, I am starting to open my eyes a little. I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts on this particular subject. It's important to note that I am curious about medicinal usage only, not recreational.

So what d'yall think? [img]smile.gif[/img]

I think it's stupid to make marijuana illegal to begin with. Medical or otherwise. It just doesn't affect you enough to make it criminal. If there is a level of fun that it's criminal to have, it's waaaaay much more fun than you have just tokin a doob.

I see no reason why some one can not use it for medical reasons. As long as it is not consumed in public. If it brings people some form of releif from pain we would be foolish not to grant this to suffering and terminal ill people.

But keep in mind if these people do any other thing with the drug ie. sell it then that is another whole issue.

If you ban marijuana from a country, it's only going to make people want to take it more, whether it's for medical reasons or not. It's the whole forbidden fruit thing. I see the same thing going on with alcohol in this country. Kids are banned from ever having a single drop until they reach 21, and once they finally do, they go off the rails and are having to have their stomachs pumped. I think both alcohol and marijuana should be made more easily accessible, so that people can get used to them, know their limits, and so that the whole novelty wears off, since it's this novelty that makes it so attractive to a lot of people in the first place. I'm fairly conservative in a lot of my views, but not when it comes to soft drugs.

<font color=lime>I am in the process of trying to obtain a permit to have a small amount for personal use, for some symptoms from my M.S..
The Dr. involved is in Portland OR. and I am in Washington st.. Both are medmary states, but apparently this doctor has set up a program that permits just the usage and small possesion. It costs around 200 bucks. That is the process I am in now, saving. ;) </font>

We have medicinal marihuana here, but it's totally unnecessary imho. It's true that people with chronic headaches have benefits from smoking a joint, but even though i don't know any such person, i can hardly imagine that they go through all the trouble of going to a doctor with some heartbreaking story, get him to write you a prescription notice, then go to an apothecry, and go stand in line and wait for your bag of (crappy) Maryjane, while all he has to do is walk out the door, find the nearest coffeeshop (they're never far away in the Netherlands), get the best weed on the market for only a few €, and smoke his headache to smithereens in one of those lazy leather couches along the wall. :D

its the Illuminate i tell you! crazy sons of beehutches!...aside from my conspiracy beliefs.
Ive never touched it myself and i dont really intend to...not that im against it or anything i jsut dont feel the need to..but for medical medicinal reasons i suppose id use it..all depends on the situation

Ah... happy thoughts, johnny, very happy...
But face it, it's illegal for now, and all we can do is wait. And petition maybe. I'm for the open access to alcohol and drugs, and I'm not talking like a kid who has nothing to do in his life than smoking joints and drinking. If it were legal, it would be commercial in matter of minutes, meaning industry would take it over from the dealers that deal far worse things than mary, and it would put a pretty big dent to the local pusher population's purse. As for open access to alcohol, I'm with Arledrian. People gotta get used to it, know their limits in both.

There are some positive reactions people have to help with there suffering and it should be used for that. When the bill was passed in Calif. everybody was arguing up and down about should it be legal for "medicinal" purposes'. However, it was legal already for any doctor to perscribe it before the law went into effect. I believe the DR. had to go an extra step to perscribe it but it wasn't illegal.

If it becomes legal for recreational use I think there is strong chance it will be even more of a gateway drug than it is now. For that reason I wouldn't support legal rec. use.

<font face="Verdana" size="3" color="#00FF00">I believe the gateway drug is more myth than fact. If the gateway thing is true than we already have alcohol, and nicotine (smokes) to blame for being gateway drugs, and when abused these are just as bad for you or worse than Marijuana. Marijuana however at least as some medical application and the only thing I can see criminal about it is the governments denying people suffering from chronic pain an effective remedy. As well if you wish to smoke a joint in the privacy of your home, or designated Marijuana cafe than you should be able without be harrased by police.</font>

[ 09-23-2004, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

You don't necessarily have to smoke marihuana. If you want to keep your lungs clean, you could use it to make tea, or soup. Some people even bake cakes with weed in it, the so called Spacecake. If it has the same effects for the headache is to be seen, but i wouldn't know why not.

The problem with legalizing marijuana is the lack of control. I tend to agree that alcohol and tobacco are certainly more destructive than marijuana, however, what's to stop somebody from lacing marijuana with cocaine, or crack, or meth?

Making marijuana legal would require it to be government controlled, thus taking it out of the hands of your street dealers. Now you're left with a lot of dealers with no income, so they move up to distributing cocaine, crack, meth, etc...

Not over here, it isn't. If I really wanted some marihuana right now, it would only take me about a five minute stroll to the nearest coffee shop to purchase some legally.

And despite it being legal (or being brooked, to be more accurate), our country has way less of a drug problem than some other countries in which the laws are extremely strict (say, for example, France).

[ 09-23-2004, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

I know about the Netherlands, and all the other countries which legalised it. I was talking about my own hole, and the majority of others where the politicians and laws are not so enlightened. That's what I was talking about by killing of the pushers, the fact that your country has a far smaller drug problem than most others.

If I really wanted to get some here I could also do so in a few hours (I have a friend who knows someone who grows it), but it wouldn't be legal and besides I hate smoking. I tried normal smoke once and haven't since.

Edit: I have friends who have been smoking for years without any side effects, so legalizing it wouldn't be a problem IMO, and medicinal usage could certainly be accepted.

[ 09-23-2004, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: dplax ]

Hey, Johnny, tell me. Some people who I know in Europe that have visited Amsterdam say the locals really don't frequent hash bars very much, that it's really the tourists who go there. Is that true? Do many people over there use it?

Just curious as to what it's like in a legalized situation.

As far as I know that's the case, yes. I don't live in "de Randstad" (cluster of large cities in the west of the Netherlands) myself, but here in the South (relatively close to the Belgian border), I've had more foreigners asking for directions to the nearest coffee shop than to the nearest train station.

[ 09-23-2004, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

Yeah, you see a lot of tourists in the coffeeshops, people from France, Germany, England, basically every country in the region. Dutch people go to the shops a lot too, but i have a feeling it was more popular back in the days when it was still illegal. People got used to it being legal i suppose, and somehow it takes the excitement away for some. But that's just me guessing here. There's also a lot of people who go to a shop just to relax, play some pool, backgammon or lay some cards, without touching anything. But tourists come to the shops with only one intention, that's true.

If I really wanted to get some here I could also do so in a few hours (I have a friend who knows someone who grows it).</font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, and if I really wanted to, I could get some in a few weeks, since my neighbour's cousin knows someone's uncle who supposedly lives just accross the street from someone whose great-aunt owns a whaccy baccy plantation!

Sorry, I'm done, I promise. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[ 09-23-2004, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Arledrian ]

I'm interested in hearing some of the arguments these experts had against legalising medicinal marijuana.
I can't really find a good reason not to, myself, so any insights on the other side of the debate would be welcome.

<font color=lime>I would. It is illegal here and other countries, ya know? Tread lightly johnny, I am a prime candidate for medmary, and you are offensive with your tone about "some heartbreaking story" </font>

[ 09-23-2004, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: LordKathen ]

What was the point of that? Can you provide facts? :D

<font color=lime>I would. It is illegal here and other countries, ya know? Tread lightly johnny, I am a prime candidate for medmary, and you are offensive with your tone about "some heartbreaking story" </font> </font>[/QUOTE]I was talking about the Netherlands dude, not about the US. Surely i can understand why you would go through all that trouble, but you wouldn't do that either if you lived right here.

And if you're THAT easily offended, well sorry, but that's not my problem.

<font color=lime>Well, actually you started with saying "We have medicinal marihuana here, but it's totally unnecessary imho."
This tells me you are impying areas that are not legal, that its not necessary. And you state that you know of no one with this problem, and then describe an example of someone going to the "trouble of...".
I know you meant no offense to me, but that is the attitude of most of the government and medical field here, is its just some heartbreaking story. I have an example for you, take a low voltage cattle prod, stick it in your head, right in the middle, then tell me what kind of trouble you would go through to stop it. Oh wait, you cant stop it, you can just cope with your "heartbreaking" story, and the break the law.
Yes I am THAT sensitive to it, and it IS my problem. So, what.</font>

You didn't understand me well then, i meant it's not necessary HERE in the Netherlands, because of all the opportunities to get it much easier.

<font color=lime>I was just talking about this with Lady Aberdene, and she pointed out the same thing you just said. I am sorry for taking that out of context.
I think what iced it for me was the "some heartbreaking story" comment. I am sure you dont mean to offend my story or anyone elses story for that matter. I am sorry, just grumpy I guess... Bygons? </font>

Sure, no probs. The "heartbreaking story" was in a manner of "why the hell would i go to the docter, tell him how much i'm hurting, while all i have to do is walk down the street, and get some without an explanation to anyone", a bit cynical as you may notice, but only because i think "medweed" is totally unnecessary here, because noone bothers going to a doc, and i'm assuming neither would you if you lived down here. Let me tell you this.... some shops are in the yellow pages, you give them a call, and they come by your house, kinda like a pizzadelivery. Would you still go see a doc with so many other options ?

<font color=lime>Absolutely! [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img] </font>

Why ?

<font color=lime>Um, sorry, I was distracted by the gibbs when I replied. I meant I would love having a delivery guy like that, and be legal. :rolleyes: </font>

I dont care if it legal or illegal because im going to stay drug free, and if people want to do it they can but i dont exactly plan on it. As some people said earlier yeah it they put it illegal it just makes people want it more.. people around here just start to smoke it because they think it would hurt them and its just for fun mostly because they feel cool because its illegal and they feel sneaky.. but i choose not too.

I think if a person is sick with a terminal illness, then whatever drug there is that is out there, that makes them feel better, or helps them lessen their nausea or feel hungry so they eat when normally they would not, then I say let them have it. They are terminal anyway, and it is not a cure, but if it makes things more calm and liveable before they die, then yes, let them have it. When people are terminal, doctors dole out tons of drugs, like morphine, etc. So if they are going to do that, marijuana is nothing, is a mild drug in comparison. The smoking part though may be harmful for some, dunno if they have a pill form?

Also, marijuana has a calming effect, so may be beneficial with people that are extremely ill (not necessarily dying), simply because it may change their mental state. I personally think the mind can cause healing or damage, given certain circumstances. And if you've been diagnosed with some horrible/possibly fatal illness, it can be for some a very worrying, paranoid time mentally, and sometimes the worry can effect the body overall. Every emotion we have causes a chemical reaction in the body. Feeling afraid will only make things worse with someone who is ill. So what I'm saying is, that for some people it could actually help them get through not only the mental part of it, but also the physical part of it (the nausea that some get). Of course it isn't for everyone, as everyone's own body reacts differently to drugs, and that's any drugs, so it is one of those things that a doctor would have to decide.

[ 09-23-2004, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: ladyzekke ]

Well I certainly don't advocate making it legal for the masses, that's opening a huge can of worms and will cause nothing but problems.

As for medicinal, I see no reason not to as long as it's not abused by both doctor and patient.

Sure, I support medicinal use of marijuana. Fully. In fact, I support its legalization, or decriminalization at the very least - say a fine for possession over a certain amount. I know plenty of people that smoke pot and haven't gone on to harder drugs, so I don't buy the gateway argument. And there are strong reasons to legalize, such as resource allocation of law enforcement agencies and courts, taking profits away from traffickers, and removal of the "forbidden fruit" attraction. IMO, those reasons outweigh the potential bad consequences.

Anyway, this is diverting the purpose of the thread, so I'll stop now. Just to reiterate, though, I def'nitely support medical usage. Well, except if someone was going to do something counter-intuitive, like toking for relief from emphezyma (sp?). But cookie form, etc, I unconditionally have no problems or concerns about (unless some conclusive medical data shows up).

The Netherlands is a living example that it won't cause nothing but trouble. As soon as it's legal, a lot of people rush out to get some, people who'd normally wouldn't have the guts to even think about it, then discover that it's not what they had in mind, and never bother again. Then only the ones that were already "smokers" remain, and before you know it, people are used to it and noone even notices it anymore. The only big difference is that you're no longer a criminal when you're in possession of some hash or marihuana, you no longer have to hide it when you run into a police officer, hell... you can even ask him for a light. :D

I'm courious LordKathen if you can get a perscription for weed from your dr. It has never been a problem in California even before the legal law, you could always get it from a doc. I thought that was the case all over the country, Dr.s can perscribe it if they think it will help just like any other drug.

As far as the gateway drug, just spend a few years counseling drug rehab folks and you will find it is real. So is alcohal and cigaretts which are already legal why would we want to add more to the plate? It should be a legal perscription drug but I believe it altready is.

Ahh, but do we blame the drugs for the problems those people themselves have? We seem to do. Wrong thing! What we SHOULD be doing is relieving those people of those problems that get them going away to those soft drugs in the first place. Often it is the case someone starts having too much of something when they have problems outside of the drugs. So it's NOT the fault of the drugs, though many people would like to see it that way.

I have never heard any better argument for legalization. That is awesome. Absolutely awesome.

You know -- you think things are true about human behavior. But, having evidence is just great.

Jr, you're right the problem is not the drug. Kids tend to self medicate rather than seek help. Our society does not make it easy for people to seek help for emotional or mental problems, the stigma is still way to prevelant. So why make it easier for these people to get the drug? If your genogram says you are prone to addiction you don't need help getting there you need help fighting it. Someday kids will come to understand it is o.k. to have problems and seek help for them.

<font color=lime>My PCP won't, and my Neurologist won't. I asked. It is a very political issue around here, and I dont blaim the docs for not wanting to get involved. There is no ligitimate research documented about the effects of Mary on pain, or any other symptom. Thats what they told me anyway. I live in a fairly small area, around 200,000, and is still real conservative on issues like this. I could go west across the mountains, in Seattle/Puget Sound area, and get it no problem. But here, not without a lot of red tape and luck.

As far as the "gateway" issue, I believe its BS. The only reason people say that, is becouse Mary is the easiest drug you can get, besides alcohol. So naturaly its the first drugs they experiment with. I have done them ALL, and had and beat a Methamphetimine addiction about 10 years ago.
Cigarettes are by far a worse drug than most others. Do you consider that a "gateway" drug.
The whole term "gateway" is a ploy as far as I am conserned. If you want the drugs after your initial usage, you will get them regardless of what your first high was.
I know a guy that did LSD as his first ever high on anything. Go figure. </font>