<font color="cyan">

I reckon Bahamut is probably going to give me the best answers to this, and my apologies if I spelt Phillopeno wrong.

Ok, as you know, I am a Marine Engineer. This means, that I work on a ship for 3 to 4 months at a time, 8-5 a day, with sometimes many more hours in between.

The reason for my post, is on board the ships, there are a lot of Phillopenos. They are mainly AB's, who help on board. Also, the Cook, The Steward, The Motorman etc.

Now, they work stupid hours. For instance, the motorman did 8-5 standard, but started at 6am, and worked til 9pm every day.

Not only this, they do 9months at a time. 9 months without seeing their family.

And whats worse, is that they do it for $600 a month.


Now, thats like an eighth of what a marine engineer gets.

Now, I had many in depth chats with them about this, and they say that they get a very good wage compared to in the Phillopenes.

But does this make it right? They are working mainly in a westerners profession, so shouldnt they be paid the same? Just because of their countrys economy, doesnt mean they should be paid less.

But, they all seemed very happy with their wage, even knowing it was like 8 times less than the lowest paid marine engineer.

Anyway, I was just wondering Bahamuts opinions on this.

So basically, how come they are so happy when they should be earning more? How come they are contracted to do double the trip of a westerner?

Either way, i was amazed at the culture of them, and their attitude towards life. I've made many friends from over there, and hopefully one day I will get out there to see them!

*Oh, and I cant recall correctly, but I think they were on about 600$ a month. It could have been $1000.

Oh, and Bahamut - Kamusta ka? (hope thats right!)</font>

Kamusta ka rin? [img]smile.gif[/img] (means basically how are you doing as well?)

anyway just to clarify alittle bit.
Our country is spelled -Philippines
But we are called - Filipino

You are right about the low wages and such. I will give you some statistics about my country.

-We have over 70 million (I think its 80 this time but Im not sure) people living in a country that a little smaller than California, USA.

- 70 percent of the total population is poor

- Minimum wage here in the Philippines (by law) is around 7-9 US dollars a DAY

- Yet most people, especially the poor, earn less than that. I can imagine around 3-5 Dollars and sometimes only 1 dollar :( Thats barely 300 US dollars a month at best.

- That is why 600 US dollars is great for them. (if its 1000 all the more better). It is like higher wages so they can help thier families back home.

- I know its sad happening because there are alot of Filipinos that are seamen/women. But we are a happy and friendly people ;) . If ever your coming to the Philippines, give me or bahamut a holler :D . Just to let you know, Leonis already visited my country and he loved it. Hope you will too.

[ 08-16-2004, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Harkoliar ]

this is all you guys make in a day? man that is really sucky :(
this is even worse :( if it is the law that the minimum wage is more than that, how can they not make it? :( man I did not realise that things were that bad :(

[ 08-16-2004, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Stormymystic ]

Stormy, the Philippines is a third world country...I'm part Filipino myself, and until people from Western societies actually go to third world countries they can have NO concept of what poverty really is. Living below the poverty line doesn't mean that you don't get heating in winter or have to get a dole cheque, it means that on some days you don't eat at ALL. :(

As is typical with most third world societies, 90% of the country's wealth is held by about 10% of the population, who live like royalty and are in many cases richer than their equivalents in first world countries.

The biggest export of the Philippines is labour - and the remittances they send back to their country keeps the country going to a large extent.

It does sound unfair, and it probably is, Lav - but the reality is that they're doing better than they probably would at home, which is why they basically cop whatever conditions are imposed on them. Bit like that hostage bloke in Iraq - he had a family of eight relying on him and the reason he was in Iraq doing a dangerous job was because they needed the $$$.

Filipinos shouldn't be paid more, Westerners should be paid less. We are allowed our opulent consumer culture because the invisible poverty of millions, nay billions of people whom most in our culture will never see, nor even be interested in seeing. One way or another, this imbalanced equation is going to come to end.

[ 08-17-2004, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

there is no way universally solving "greed" and "power" sadly :(

<font color="cyan">Thanx Harkoliar!

I should have mentioned in my first post, that all of their wages is sent back home.

I will try and get over there at some stage, my Dad lives in Thailand so maybe when I can afford the flights to him, I'll go that extra bit further to see some friends!</font>

Wow, this is really saddening. And I thought that McDonalds wages were bad [img]smile.gif[/img]

Mabuti naman ako! (Which translates to "I am fine!")

Oh you want the more appropriate term? It is "Kumusta ka?" [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Yes, Hark and Mem have already provided you with the details I usually hate to discuss so yay. Hahaha [img]smile.gif[/img]

Well 600$ is already good wage for a working Filipino in any sense. The problem usually with third world countries (correct me if I am wrong) is that labor is CHEAP. So what people usually do is they get people from third world countries to pay them extra cheap wage. Sadly, the roles are reversed here, on where the average garbage man here cannot sustain his whole family as compared to one in the west- complete with a Ford F-150 and a house.

The minimum wage is around 5-7$ a day. And people usually even get less.

But then Lavi as you said, we Filipinos remain upbeat and warm. I don't know why. Hehehe [img]smile.gif[/img] And yes, like Hark said, if you ever pass by here, just PM one of us and we'll be happy to rob your arse... oh did I say rob? :D

[ 08-17-2004, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: Bahamut ]

<font color="cyan">Another thing, I forgot to mention.

To help them get the most out of their money, rather than have it sent back to their homes, they withdraw all of their money off the ship.

This means they get it in USD. They then send the USD back, and because of the exchange rate get even more money. Which is good for them.

But, a lot of the Fillopenos work for agencies, as in, the agency gets them their job, and I'm sure IIRC that they take a lot of their wages too.

:( </font>

We can't make a real assessment of how "unfair" the wage is unless we know the prices of goods in the Phillipines. How much for a loaf of bread? a gallon of milk? that Ford F150? or a house?

Larry, the alternative to doing it the way they do it on your vessel is to scrap the company, start a company in the Phillipines, and pay everyone on board $600-$1000 per month. Then, of course, you'd find another job. Just thought I'd point that out.

TL: believe us, it IS unfair. Let us say he gets minimum wage right? Given that, he could buy let's say 3-4 cartons of milk. That's it. He would have to manuever a lot just to make due which is almost impossible (or it actually is) because prices are going up dramatically and wages never do. In fact, since all prices are going up, wages go down, or never change because of these price hikes.

With a blue-collar Filipino worker who works locally, I reckon that he will never be able to buy a house for a lifetime. No opportunities to save, and defintely prices won't go down.

unless he builds one bahamut [img]smile.gif[/img]

in an international point of view, you can say that our goods back home is cheap. when leonis went to the PHilippines, he found eveything cheap. But of course the that depends on your currency is in question as well. It may be cheap for you guys, but it is still expensive for us no matter how cheap you people find it. If you guys find our goods cheap, then try and imagine what we think of your goods?

Like memnoch said, the equality of rich and poor varies dramatically in 3rd world countries as well.

Since I have started studying here in Sydney Australia, I have met so many different nationalities of students that it astounds me. A student who works minimum wage part time (or what is possible given school or no school day) can save enough in one month to go to trips in different countries. What I saved here is 2 times of what I can get back home working FULL time (minimum wage comparison of course). Filipino Students back home would just work as hard as I have and be happy going on small trips out to the country side.

If you look at it in the consumption of necessities (meaning prices of goods), then savings is the big factor here as well.

While I am not blaming any country of our 3rd world status, Im just saying this for you 1rst world people out there, you should be lucky and thankful of what you guys have.

edit: spelling and one last thing,

I actually remember leonis saying he was near heart-broken when a Filipina Lady approached his group and offered her newly born child to them so that He/She may have a better chance here in Australia. Just imagine how bad it really is that it makes a woman willing to give her own child so he/she could have a better future.

one last edit: if you people want to know how lucky you guys really are? then visit a 3rd world country and live with them to show you how lucky you people really are.

[ 08-17-2004, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Harkoliar ]

I could not even begin to imagine what life is like there :( I hate that life is so bad for everyone in third world countries, but would not even know how to help. if our prices are so high, and we make so much more than you guys over there, how bad it must be :(

<font color="cyan">I've never lived in a 3rd world country, but I've spent a lot of time in Malaysia (the very south, the poor part), Thailand, Eastern China (once again the poor part) and Egypt, and I understand how hard it must be.</font>

I think you're talking about "standard of living" which does take exchange rates, average wages and relative cost of living into consideration. Also things like quality of services (you might pay relatively the same as me for water, but how does the quality and reliability of that water compare etc...)

Believe me, even though I was there for a short time, it's apparent that the standard of living is far below what I am used to in Australia and other 'first world' nations.

I also noticed other relatives, such as a friend I made who is a TV editor. She worked for longer hours than a TV editor here, for far less relative income. In Australia, a TV editor is generally above average wage (not far though) and doing reasonable well. This girl is struggling to make ends meet, even though she's probably earning 'a good wage' for the Philippines...

...and this is why you get a "brain drain" of talent out of the country to other countries, Leo...it's just too hard unless you're part of that 10% who has all the wealth...

I notice this phenemenon on my country. Hiring Filipinos or Indonesians is much cheaper and easier than hiring locals ( though they still need work permits ). Locals then to be very choosy about jobs or demand outrages wages just for a simple blue color jobs ie maid or gardener. Filipinos or Indonesian will be happy to just get any kind of jobs for just any kind of wages. They don't complain much about their work unlike locals who would just complain about anything ( too hot lah got dark cloud lah etc etc... )

[ 08-18-2004, 03:05 AM: Message edited by: Kakero ]

yeah, all the smart and the people who posses leadership qualities rather go abroad and seek thier fortune somewhere else because they know they wont be able to go up to the ladder under ordinary circumstances. its sad really.

stormy... it's not that bad... it's just that a little fluctuation in the economy is greatly felt. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I still wouldn't trade my place, and culture for the world (but I'd love to know other cultures LOL) [img]smile.gif[/img]

I am really concerned though with other people taking advantage of the injustice that is present nowadays regarding labor...

A lot of what we're discussing here should be part of the WTO's consideration when it says you can't place a tarriff on goods. I know this is very "big picture," but if the WTO allowed nations with higher wages (which is a big cost of production) to factor at least some "minimum" wage amount into their tarriff structures, the wages in these other countries would likely rise over time (especially since raising their wages would avoid paying the tarriff). We can't demand a level playing field for SELLING products when we don't have one for PRODUCING products. MHO.

[ 08-18-2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]