Just a personal note. My guild took down Rags this weekend.

The guild had done one MC trash mob run prior to my joining it, so that doesn't count. Our first boss raid in MC was on 3/31 and we took down 4 bosses. On 4/29 we downed Domo. And on 5/27 Rags exploded. So, inside of 2 months of MC raiding I'm 5/8 Felheart.

I also stepped into ZG for the first time around 3/20 with the guild, who had not killed Hakkar yet. Now the guild has killed him 4 times, I've been there for 3, including the first. And, yes, I got the ZHC. I also got 2 Demoniac pieces, which become Epix purple with stat boosts next patch.

So, I've had a hectic but successful couple of months of raiding. I began the game in Oct. 2005, started running the 60's Blue dungeons in February, switched guilds 5 weeks later, and started and finished MC in 2 months.

It's been a blast.

**This Epeen Moment Brought to You By Ingafel. Ingafel - Catch It.**

Gratz :D Pretty fast progress for new guilds nowadays, i remember being in the first ever alliance MC run on my server- whuch was a pickup group of the 3 top guilds (back when guilds were small), we wiped on the first giants 3 times and spent 3 hours getting to lucifron [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Its an awesome feeling to clear out an instance and it clears the mental block so next time he'll go down first time i bet.
Make sure you head to BWL asap, dont be afraid that it'll be twice an hard as MC cos really it isn't. Theres so many tactics around now you can kill a boss in 1 nights trying [img]smile.gif[/img]
Make sure you use those epix now you have em [img]tongue.gif[/img] , go pvp while you have a gear advantage [img]smile.gif[/img]

We finally downed Domo and went for Raggy on Saturday (( 51% first ever go )).

We've been ten times. We only raid Fridays/Saturdays 7-12.

Started on 04/21/06 (some ZG runs in between, we rotate from 20-40man), and we are pretty badly dressed for FR.
One day in MC on Friday, a RP event on Saturday and Onyxia on Sunday. A nice weekend of WoW for me!

Congrats man, my former guild that I spent about 2 months with had amazing MC progression too, but the nagain once yo uget the strats down it's easy as pie. BWL is a *lot* harder, so good luck progressing there next! =D Just to inspire you a bit, I'll post a picture of a paladin wielding Asscandy after a Nef kill.

I'm also glad you've been able to earn equipment, the whole time I had been raiding with those guys, not *once* did any pally 1H weapons or gear drop. Complete bull, I've also become extremely prejudiced against druids and warlocks for dominating our loot tables! >=O

[ 05-31-2006, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: Kynaeus ]

This is the way of it. People see pallies as second-best classes. Having a 60 pally myself I have to say I can see why. WoW has been awfully cruel to pallies and they have this ugly stereotype of being played by kids now. Kind of ruined my favourite fantasy class.

a guy in my guild loves pallies and hates the reroll to horde.

speaking of which, our quick MC progression is due to the fact that most of the guys in the guild are rerolls from an ally guild on Elune. So, they knew MC and had it on farm on another server. Luckily, I fell in with them. :D

I've never even done MC, just watched my roommate do run after run. It looked pretty cool the first time, after that it seemed extremely boring and monotonous. Sitting there for hours and hours in the same place, fighting the same mobs, in the same areas, using the same techniques over and over and over and over again. Ugh, no way. I can safely say that I will NEVER set foot in any of those raid areas; I am simply not hardcore enough. Wasting hours and hours doing the same shit night after night just for the slim chance that some frilly little purple item might drop. Hah, no thanks. At least you are a class that hardly anyone plays, so getting your pieces should be easy. Once you have them all, then what? Move on to the next raid and start doing the same shit over and over again? See what I mean? It all seems so convoluted and contrived. Blech. I guess that’s some people’s idea of fun, but definitely not mine. I’d much rather start a new class that I haven’t played before, or maybe start up on a brand new server. The game just stops becoming fun for me at 60. There are lots of things to do, but almost all of them relate to farming items in some form or fashion. I have a 60 Priest with an epic mount on Bloodscalp that I rarely ever play, just because the end game raiding does not appeal to me. I’ve had guilds beg me to come do MC or ZG, but I turn them down because it’s just not fun. Granted, the lure of getting some epic priest gear is definitely there, but it’s just not enough. My roommate and his cousin both did countless MC runs; the end result is they both have a 60 with epics that they don’t even play anymore. It’s cool if you enjoy it, but I really don’t, so I guess I’ll never have those uber-items. Given the hours and hours of monotony that’s entailed, I really don’t think I’m missing much. [img]smile.gif[/img]

glyc

ZG is a lot more fun than MC. It feels relaxing...

MC is fun when you only raid twice a week. Hardly hardcore.

Plus going with friends makes it fun. I've been going for a few months and I still enjoy it. Some of the conversations that come up in raid are just so so strange!

And yes the lure of epics are there *grins*

6/8 felheart and Staff of Dominance ain't boring, IMO.

Plus my guild is totally fun. Hilarious bunch of guys. Most of us are drunk on raids too. Yar.

ZG is fun. More technical than MC for sure. A lot more complicated fights. The panther fight has been made really hard as of 1.10 and is not something you can guarantee 100% of the time. Spider and Bat are annoying IMO, not because they are hard but because they're annoying to clear to and then do. Jindo is always a bastard. Hakkar's pretty easy, IMO, but then again I'm not responsible for Son pulls during the fight like a hunter is.

I prefer MC for the loot tables. And it may seem boring once it's on farm, but fights like Sulfuron and Majordomo aren't easy the first time. Garr can be a pain for us Locks, which is one reason I like it. Actually, if you haven't done it, Moam is the same on banishes, but for 20 man instead of 40.

Epics are cool, but not worth the time. Raids are a cool concept, but again not worth the time. Four to five hours for the slim chance of one or two purple drops just doesn't appeal to me at all, not to even mention having to listen to a bunch of morons bark orders through your headphones. Thanks, but no thanks. It's about personal taste, and personally, I couldn't care less about raiding or epics. I used to get excited when I would see someone decked out, I'd run up and inspect them just to see what they had. These days, it's just no big deal any more. Everyone's got epics, *yawn* move along, nothing to see here.

I'll stick to playing my alts, bouncing around between different servers, and helping out friends when they need it. I'm okay with leaving the rest to the hardcore, like you and my roommate. He picked up his Staff of Dominance last week, nice drop, but to tell you the truth I just really do not see what the big deal is. [img]smile.gif[/img]

glyc

I guess I'm just wondering what you find interesting about it Glyc. For 5-man instances, it's all basically the same. With minor variation you kill all the bosses in the same way. A couple of little differences here and there -- a few bosses sleep people (in SM and ST, for instance), things like that, the end boss and all those mobs in BRD is kinda different. The stairs fight in ZF is a trip.

But it's not until Dire Maul and UBRS that you start getting situations where you really have to crowd control and do other weird crap on a boss fight (Drakk -- you either kite drakk or chain fear the adds).

What you get on a raid are completely different, very technical fights. Every boss in Zeee Geee has a different strategy, and it's tough to learn, and interesting to do. MC has interesting fights too, though some of them use the *same* type of strategy (Luci, Sulf, Domo are similar, and Baron Geddon, Mag and Shazz require similar approaches).

There's nothing like these fights in the rest of the game. You talk about "these same techniques" but at least they are techniques. All the other stuff in the game is just like "kill it."

I want to see these interesting fights. I also want to see all the game content I possibly can. It bothers me when there are instances that I haven't even seen the inside of.

The game is meant to be enjoyed in many different ways, so kudos to you for liking it the way you do. I just don't understand how it can stay interesting.

Exactly, the same way I don't understand how it can possibly stay interesting running the same 4 to 5 hour instances, the same ways, just for epics that there is no guarantee you will even get because someone else probably has more DKP then you do. That, to me at least, just makes no sense at all. It just doesn't look even remotely fun.

Not really, when I do end-game instances like Strath or Scholo with groups that have no strategy except "kill it", we wipe. Plain and simple. When I run with groups who have a plan that everyone follows, we blaze right through it with no problems.

I understand your point of view. I think the three main reasons I don't get into raiding are time, the DKP system, and the asshats that usually run them. Maybe one of these days I'll break down and force myself to do an MC or ZG run, but it just really does not appeal to me. Running the same instances over and over again for DKP points does not interest me. Running the same instances for four or more hours does not interest me. I'd rather have the option to bail and do something else, know what I mean?

To each his own, eh?

glyc

TL that's why I play. I want to see the content, all of it.

That's why my one goal as of late was to get and do my Hunter Epic Quest. I had heard so much of it, I wanted to do it and prove I was a good hunter.
And I did.
And I am very very pleased.

Well in many instances you get a mage, he sheeps. You get a druid, he sleeps.
In end-game 5man (( DM, Strat, Scholo )) you don't always have a mage, as we found out today.

Saying I'd help a druid friend in Scholo..as soon as I got there the warrior caused a wipe and left.
Hunter Hunter Druid Warlock

It was a freeze two, nuke the casters type of tactic and damn it was fun. Chain trapping in BRD for Jailbreak, again with two hunters, was described as beautiful by a guildie *grins* It's when the good players get seperated from the average players. And damn it shows in PuGs

Yep, Ivelliis, agree. I fell in with a good group of players and it's a blast. Joking on vent makes dungeons or raids infinitely more fun.
If you're dealing with an "asshole" leader who screams "more Dots, more Dots" and "many whelps, handle it," and "Minus 50 DKP," then get a new guild. There are nice people out there, I promise.

Lately we've been killing the "blue" dungeons, some impressive events. 45-minute baron run is a blast. But try UB3Rz through the end in about an hour (no egg event). Schololoflcopter easily run in under an hour -- up to a half hour if we do the Shammie/Pally quest in Rattlegoof's room (my felhound has tanked every caster in there). We got the DM Tribute run down to about 45 mins as well, complete with the obligatory fat ogre dance when you put on the ogre suit. Tanking incendius with my VW last night -- rogue mentions how he's surprised the guy can hold a bit of aggro.

Anyway, on the issue of the lewt (which is the secondary reason to raid), Here is my item history and kill history. You'll note that in 12 trips to the core and 2 to Ony I've got 10 drops. Now, admittedly, I roll on everything I can use. I'm not a DKP hoarder. On top of that lewt, my guild leaders collect all the core items from MC to make stuff -- first tanks, then melee, etc. Well, guild leader pops open trade the other night and hands me purple fire resist gloves (flarecore).

So that's 11 epics for 12 trips, which is not a bad average. If gear is the concern.

And, it's not like we'll be doing MC forever. Most guilds that have it on farm for a while start doing it less often. Then only when newbies join up.

Now, let's compare that to these other blue dungeons. I still run those, I have to because I chew through 4 to 8 large brilliant shards every week making raid consumables. So I'm running Scholo and Ubers, etc, still and sharding all the lewt that people don't need. I would be I've run Scholol 30 or 40 times, at least. Uberz just as much. I counted 11 DM Tribute runs to get my Rod of the Ogre Magi, and I've done more since then.

Compared to a dozen trips to the core. So, you can guess which one bores me more.

[ 06-20-2006, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

Ye there are definately better guilds out there. My guild is called 'Chilled Out Wargamers', we dont use vent or TS at all. We have a guild channel for those that wanna chat during the raid but no leader is online etc. We're not hardcore at all, our guild has alot of older 28+ yr olds so we are really laid back and enjoy the experience kind of guild.
We raid only 3 nights a week - Monday - BWL Tuesday-AQ40, Wednesday Aq40. With this laid back 3 days a week we've reached C'thun and with only 51 members. We've managed to find a small group of people who all enjoy raiding if its not too serious + i play CSS , Wc3 TFT, Dota and Bf2 with 12+ of my guildies, so i've made loads of friends that i can play with on a multitude of games and that is 1 of the main reasons i've stayed with WoW, not the raiding but -My guild-.

Well we don't use Vent either, but we have the raid channel (which is for leaders and officers, using /raquiet if it gets too crowded and an OOC channel for blabbing on.

Here is my item/raid history. I'm afraid to say I am a DKP hoarder. I wanted that leaf, and now that I've got it I can just chill out and get Tier1 when I want.

Great loot, no doubt about that. I'll still stick with the other dungeons though. The great part about doing them is that I choose when to do them; someone else doesn't pick the time for me. If I don't feel like it, I don't log in. If I've got my daughters that evening or weekend, I don't log in. If I've got friends coming over for the weekend to hang out, I don't log in. If I feel like playing something else or watching a movie, I don't log in. If I want to go out to the bar or a movie, I don't log in. On the other hand, if I want to play one of my numerous alts, I can. See what I mean? I can play when I want, what I want, how I want, or not at all for months at a time.

Like I said, my main problem with raiding is the time involved. I play when I want, and I don't like some guild or raid leader telling me when I have to be on. Thanks, but no thanks. Kudos to everyone that does, because the items really are nice. I still think that's it's just not worth it, but that's only my opinion.

Please don't think I'm trying to take away from your accomplishments, because that is certainly not the case. Obviously it takes dedication to get gear like that, no argument there. I'm just playing devil's advocate here and throwing in the point of view of a more "casual" WoW player.

glyc

[ 06-21-2006, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Glycerine_74 ]