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-   -   Laptop question (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90121)

dplax 05-17-2004 06:13 PM

I have been using a Toshiba Satellite laptop since Christmas and have had no problems until recently. In the last 24 hours I had the same problem happen several times. The problem is the following: the laptop will just switch itself off spontaneously. It is not the power settings as I have checked them. At first I thought that it might be some security setting for overheating, as the laptop felt warmer than usual, but the cooling fans are still working, so I don't know whether it can be that. Otherwise from this problem the laptop is working fine, I am just worrying that some hardware might have gone wrong. Any help would be appreciated.

EDIT: the times when this has happened was once while running Disc Cleanup and the other time while just listening to music.

[ 05-17-2004, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: dplax ]

Vaskez 05-17-2004 06:50 PM

The only thing I can think of is a faulty battery connection hmmm how to say this in english - lehet hogy kontakthibás lett az elem. Spray the battery contacts with that spray you get in electronics shops that improves electrical contacts.

dplax 05-17-2004 07:00 PM

When these happenned the laptop was running off the external power supply so I don't think it was the battery.

Wysardry 05-17-2004 07:24 PM

Did you check the Windoze power-saving settings, those in the BIOS and the machine's own setup screens?

It sounds to me as if it's switching to standby mode due to lack of keyboard/mouse activity.

dplax 05-17-2004 07:31 PM

It is not standby mode, the computer completely switches off.

Thoran 05-17-2004 07:37 PM

it's possibe it's a heat issue... although that typically just locks the computer up. Could be a faulty driver... did you recently install any new hardware or software?

dplax 05-17-2004 07:41 PM

No new hardware. It is a laptop. The newest software was Sacred 2 weeks ago.

Wysardry 05-17-2004 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dplax:
It is not standby mode, the computer completely switches off.
When my Dell Laptop goes into (hardware) standby mode, the power goes completely off, but it saves the current status of Windoze first (what applications and files are open etc.), and will restore everything when the power button is pressed.

There is no obvious way to tell whether the machine is completely off or in standby mode, as the power LED is off in both instances.

It might be worth checking your manual to see if your Toshiba has a similar function.

dplax 05-17-2004 07:49 PM

I was running a disk cleanup when this first happened and it definitely did not save its status. So it was not standby. And it did not even say it was going into standby mode. It just from the windows screen went to a totally black, silent screen.

dplax 05-17-2004 07:57 PM

Update: I have been running the laptop from the battery for about 2 hours now without any problems. Could it be that something is wrong with the power supply cable or the adapter?

Animal 05-17-2004 08:02 PM

Bad RAM perhaps? Run mem-test or somthing similiar to disqualify that option, and then just beginning testing one part at a time until you find the culprit.

You could also try firing up Dr. Watson under Windows and see if any errors are logged. If you're using 2000 or XP check the system log files for errors that my be associated with your problem.

If all else fails, it sounds like a great excuse to buy a new laptop. :D

dplax 05-17-2004 08:07 PM

Dr. Watson says that the last error was BG2 in february.

Where do you do mem-test? And I don't think that my parents would be happy about getting me a new laptop. Considering it took me a few years to be able to convince them to get this one.

Wysardry 05-17-2004 08:11 PM

Sleep mode, hardware standby mode, hibernation, whatever you want to call it, is not necessarily the same on a laptop as it is on a desktop machine.

On a laptop the screen, laptop, hard drive, power etc. all shut down completely. The method used to restore the machine from this state varies from machine to machine. On some you just press the power button, on others you have to hold down a particular key at the same time to prevent it performing a "cold" boot instead.

I doubt it is the power supply or its cable, as the battery should take over if that were the case. You could test that is actually happening by cutting the power supply off at the mains (rather than by unplugging it at the laptop end).

I had a problem with my power cable at one point, and that was fairly easy to diagnose because the battery was draining (and the charge LED stayed off).

My machine is several years old though. You shouldn't really be experiencing problems in that area unless you flex the cable a great deal (many times a day).

dplax 05-17-2004 08:16 PM

I understand the differences between laptop standby and PC standby however the problem was that it happened instantenously without my input, so I don't think it was standby.

BaRoN NiGhT 05-17-2004 08:19 PM

try to scan for viruses. update it first.

Wysardry 05-17-2004 08:44 PM

It's the fact that you weren't providing any input both times that makes me suspect the machine's own (not Windoze) power settings.

When I first got my laptop (which was used), it was set so that during periods of inactivity the screen would go off/blank after 3 mins, the hard drive after 5 mins, and after 7 mins the main power would go off.

Fairly obviously, if the screen is already off, there's no way to see a query box even if one is displayed. It's also possible to set all 3 options to the same time delays, so that it will power down almost instantly.

The settings for mains and battery power can usually be set independantly.

It might be worth searching for a "burn in" test utility, and running that whilst on mains power and avoiding the use of the mouse and keyboard. You'd be testing several things at once that way.

You might also want to check the Toshiba site to see if anyone else has had similar problems with that particular model.

T-D-C 05-17-2004 09:43 PM

I had an issue like that one where my laptop had a Wake on LAN feature for the Network card. For some reason the laptiop switched off at random times when connected to the interenet. When I turned the Wake on LAN off (in the BIOS) this never happened again.

Hope it helps.

Stormymystic 05-17-2004 10:52 PM

to answer your update question, it could possibly be the power cord, if running it on battery fixed it, it is probably a faulty conection in the cord..any chance it happens when you move the laptop? as mine does that, since some body set on it in the car :/ if that is the problem, it can be fixed by getting a new cord

Thoran 05-17-2004 10:55 PM

experiment more with battery power... if it happens regularly on cord but never on battery you have a winner. If the system is running hot it could be you have a voltae regulation problem... try borrowing a power adapter from someone who has the same laptop model if you can

dplax 05-18-2004 06:40 AM

@Baron Night: I've never heard of viruses which can switch off computers just like that. Shutting down maybe, but not switching off like when pressing the power button.

@Wisardry: Thanks for the suggestios. The problem is that it wasn't a period of inactivity when these happened. Running media player and music doesn't count as inactivity. neither does disc cleanup. I'll check the other stuff you suggested.

@T-D-C: I wasn't connected to the net when the problems happened.

@Stormy and Thoran: I'll try that too.

Thanks everyone for your help so far. I hope I can find out what was causing this problem.

Bungleau 05-18-2004 11:24 AM

Inactivity may be measured by keystroke or mouse movement, and not by CPU activity. Otherwise, a screen saver would keep something alive forever.

When I do system work on my machines, I go into Power Management and use an always-on setting. Nothing ever turns off (monitor, drives, power) under that setting. I've done that because when one of those kicks in (or maybe it was a screen saver), it restarted the defrag I was trying to do... fourteen times... [img]graemlins/madhell.gif[/img]

I would definitely contact support, though, especially on such a new machine. My laptop provider (Fujitsu) has on-line web chat for problem resolution... it has been very useful both times I've used it :D

dplax 05-18-2004 11:26 AM

But IIRC when music plays on windows media player then that is considered as a period of acticity. Correct me if I am wrong.

Stormymystic 05-18-2004 12:15 PM

let me know if that works

dplax 05-18-2004 12:18 PM

I will let you know. I'll do some experimenting with it tonight.

Wysardry 05-18-2004 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dplax:
But IIRC when music plays on windows media player then that is considered as a period of acticity. Correct me if I am wrong.
It's user interaction that determines the activity level, not what programs are running. If you aren't using the mouse or keyboard, that's a period of inactivity as far as power saving features are concerned.

That's why most laptops have separate settings for when they're running on mains power or battery. If running on mains power you generally want to leave a longer delay so that you can watch videos, listen to music etc. without needing to move the mouse at regular intervals to keep the screen/drive/system "alive".

dplax 05-18-2004 06:33 PM

OK I checked several things. I ran the laptop several hours on external power and then a few hours on battery and no problems showed up.

I checked the windows power settings: when running on external power everything is set to full use, so no standby, no switch off monitor and no switching off hard disks. And the laptop was running from external power when the problem happened.

Could it be that while I was doing the disc cleanup it somehow overheated something and the computer shut itself down as a security measure? I can't reasonably think of anything else.

@Wisardry: But while playing a film with windows media player the screen saver won't switch on even if you are inactive.

Sir Kenyth 05-18-2004 06:45 PM

This is almost surely a sleep or suspend occurring.

Power conservation modes usually have numerous levels. First, the screen turns off, then the drives. Then it goes into suspend mode, where a keystroke or mouse movement will bring it on. After this, it goes to sleep or suspend mode. This effectively turns off the PC. Your info is stored in RAM so only a partial boot is needed. You generally need to hit the power button to come back from this mode. The PC may also completely shut itself off. There are settings in both the BIOS and OS that control these functions.

Timber Loftis 05-18-2004 06:45 PM

For standby purposes, if you are not pressing the keyboard or moving the mouse/touchpad it is considered "inactive." Period.

Your power settings are likely NOT controlled by the windows power settings. I have owned 5 laptops to date (3 Toshibas) and every one of them had a different power management program installed by the company which will either override or work in conjunction with the Windblows power management settings. I know it's stupid, but I just use the machines, I don't make them.

Sounds to me like you may have had power surges or brief outages. If you were operating off your power cord and the battery was not installed, a brief outage in the power could case the machine to just power off immediately. You'd know though, because it would do a self-test once you started it back up.

Last time I checked, Toshiba had good telephone assistance available if you'd like to call them.

[ 05-18-2004, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

dplax 05-18-2004 07:15 PM

Did some looking around on the Toshiba forums and it seems that others have had the same problem. Here is what the reply was:

Quote:

Update your BIOS from www.ts.toshiba.com

If that doesn't help, then I would suspect a overheating problem. One way to decide if it is a overheating problem is if the machine does NOT want to startup immediately after it has shutdown. That would pretty much diagnose a overheating problem

Another thing you can try is to back up your data files, then use your Recovery CD to restore the machine to factory fresh. If the problem continues immediately after restoring the system, it is most likely a hardware problem


http://pcrepair.toshiba.com

has worldwide service provider (ASP\PASP) information/locations.



The description pretty much fits what had happened to me.

and another reply:
Quote:

Could be a plugged cooling module. The cooling fan and module for the A series is on the bottom where dust and lint are sucked into the fan and usually plug up the radiator type of cooling module. A good servicer can remove the cooling module and not damage the CPU and then clean out the cooling module's vents.


I shall try what they have suggested. Thanks for your help and input everyone.

Wysardry 05-18-2004 07:22 PM

Toshiba also provide online support, including .pdf versions of manuals for a wide range of machines.

Just visit www.computers.toshiba-europe.com

Edit: It looks as if you've already discovered one of their sites.

[ 05-18-2004, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Wysardry ]

dplax 05-18-2004 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wysardry:
Edit: It looks as if you've already discovered one of their sites.
:D Thanks for your help anyway. I really appreciate it.


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