I just got out of an almost day-long discussion with my classmates in earth and space science 1111, and I must say we've been finding out the most odd things. Every now and then I might start a thread here to tell you about the things we discovered/talked about.

First interesting thing: Mars is close to Earth, as we all know, but did you know that the light reflected off of mars was lighting up Saturn? Yeap, Infact Saturn is in very good view as well. You can check out a shot of it here.

Next: Acoording to 3 of my classmates, Nasa has been pointing Satelites at a black hole we've spotted that consumed a star a few years back. What's interesting is that the readings Nasa is getting back are registering as sound waves. This opens an odd question: do black holes produce sound? Perhaps the sound waves are being created by an after shock of energy and magnetism brought on through the stars consumption. No one is really sure right now.

Finally: Apparently on the last payload to the international space station, the astronauts brought along an electric keyboard and some sheet music. They say it's just to feel more at home and not like they're on an isolated space vessel.

You can get a nice big picture (1.5 megs) of two astronauts just chillin on the ISS here. That's all I've got for now.

The picture of saturn I think is very neat, and the fact that black holes produce sound waves is just... odd... I mean... come on... Does this mean that in space someone really could hear you scream if you were getting sucked into a black hole? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I think those sound waves are some interference or something, because sound waves can't move in vacuum of space. The idea that something is coming out of a black hole is a bit far-fetched. A black hole is an infinitesimally small amount of space which has an extremely large mass and gravity pull. It's force of pull is so strong that it consumes light. Thus, nothing gets out of a black hole, except on the other side. What's the other side? The other side of a black hole is only a possibility, and a rare one at that. If it were true, only one in a million black holes would construct singularities through space-time and create worm holes. That's the other side.
Was there anything else?

i dont remember where i read it, but remember reading from somewhere that black holes produce some ultra-low frequencie sounds that travel through space. how it could escape the immense pull of the black hole, well the only explenation i could come up with would be that since light is something like elektrons and stuff like that, thus it could be sucked in to the black hole, while sound is just different wave lenghts, or something simliar. not very good, i know, but thats what id come up with if someone were to ask me...about that "sound waves cant move in vacuum of space", dont they(dont ask me who) have some satellite dishes to take in and identify any possible sound waves, were they to come from outer space...?

Sound are wave motions passed along by the particles in air so
it's unlikey that it's sound. But if black holes eminates something it might be possible that it has the same wave lenght as some sounds. But then again I'm no physicist.

Black holes do emit radiation - Stephen Hawking would be the man to talk to about that. Or rather, 'Brief History of Time' and 'Universe in a Nutshell' would be the books to read. Wossisname Krauss speaks of it in 'Physics of Startrek' and 'Beyond Startrek' as well. Its all to do with virtual particles and imaginary energy and weird quantum stuff that can happen in areas of space with a steep gravity gradient.

Thats low level though. What is being detected is from the accretion disc, not the hole itself. Its radiation generated by the matter falling into the black hole and getting heated in the process. Of course sound cannot travel in a vacuum, so I suspect the 'sound waves' are low frequency EM waves rather than actual sound.

As for the far side of a black hole, thats pure speculation. I dont think black holes have any far side. And if one did, both ends would be singularites, so both ends would be black holes and thus it dosent matter to the outside universe anyway.

Sound waves can't move on the vacuum of space because, like Stratos said, they are the motion of particles. Sonic signals are, however, possible, and they could escape black hole's gravity if their phase is shifted somehow. Since the phase-shift theory is just that, a theory, I have no other explanation for that phenomenon.

If I remember my physics correctly they ( the scientist) don't know exactly what light consists of, but as more or less everything else consists of particles then the scientists assume that light does as well. They call these 'light' particles photons.
These satellite dishes are searching for radio waves which can be played up as sound.

As for the singularity having double black holes as it's sides, that doesn't have to be. If a black hole should open a singularity through space-time, with an exit on the ofher side, then one of the following should, theoretically, occur: Both ends are negative black holes(suction)
OR
Both ends are positive black holes(sometimes known as white holes, these theoretical objects are not really white. They are an inverse of a black hole, having the same strenght of force, but in the opposite direction, pushing things away.)
OR
The polarisation effect occurs, and one end is a positive and the other is a negative black hole. This, theoreticians say, is the most likely occurence.
OR
The black hole is fed up, it's mass becomes infinite and it is swallowed into space-time or, a bit more Sci-fi, subspace. The same happens in a white hole. It's mass becomes null and void, it ceaces to exist. The singularities lose their ancor points and they become instable, shifting tunnels.

If I remember my physics correctly they ( the scientist) don't know exactly what light consists of, but as more or less everything else consists of particles then the scientists assume that light does as well. They call these 'light' particles photons.

Quote:

-snip-about that "sound waves cant move in vacuum of space", dont they(dont ask me who) have some satellite dishes to take in and identify any possible sound waves, were they to come from outer space...?

These satellite dishes are searching for radio waves which can be played up as sound. </font>[/QUOTE]thats just about what i meant...maybe not exactly, but almost [img]smile.gif[/img]

White holes would require exotic matter, which is not a confirmed possible above the microscopic level, and besides, Exotic matter has inverse gravity. It seems to me that a white hole would be massively unstable - just as the black hole's gravity causes it to contract to infinity density, a white hole's gravity should cause it to disperse to zero density.

But if you have any links to the contrary, it would make interesting reading.

Sorry, no links. But browsing NASA or JPL and sites like that moght always be a good option.
As for the white hole dispersion, read my last thread.

now, aslong as were still talking all this sci-fi, universe, physics theories(which i find immensly fasinating), i might as well ask this:

Do any of you think that there exist an anti-substance for everything? My physics teacher introduced me(and my class) to pretty interesting thought, IMO. scientists have recently been able to generate an anti-hydrogen molecule with some state-of-the-art particle accelerator, which theratically should annhiliate the hydrogen we know, should they ever come to touch. i believe the scientist have come up with this theory based on beta+ radiation, which contains positrons(the anti-particle of the elektron). If the positrons make contact with elektrons, the result will be annhiliation of both -trons and the result of this would be elektromagnetic radiation, correct? so the theory theyve come up with is that there could be an anti-particle for everything, and at the extreme, and anti-galaxy-sort-of-thing with a solar system much like our own, which would contain a planet which would be made of earths anti-particles. this planet on the other hand would then contain beings made of the anti-particles of the particles WE are made of.

what do you guys think?

The anti-matter thing is correct, and scientists have done more than just crated anti-protons and anti-hydrogens. There is talk of a possobility of a superbomb, not fusion based, related to the anti-matter topic. Testers at JPL are currently trying to create an anti-neutron. How this should work, I don't understand, but all I can do is sit and wait for the outcome.
As for the positron and electron collision: besides the destruction of both sub-particles, the collision would produce an awesome amount of energy. Cool, ha?

Electrons are not anti-protons. anti-protons are anti-protons. And at this point I really wish that physicists had a more original name for the anti-proton.

The anti-electron is the positron. These antimatter particles have been produced in accelerators for some years now, and the anihilations when they contact normal matter have been observed. Its not just theory, some of it is proven fact.

Whats special about the anti-hydrogren is that its an actual atom - a positron orbiting an anti-proton in the same way that a electron orbits a proton in normal hydrogen.

As for a macro antimatter object existing somewhere in the universe, I dont think its likely. I need to quote from 'Brief History of Time' here, but I dont have it to hand.

But if there were a galaxy of antimatter that contained no matter, it would behave precisely the same as a matter galaxy containing no antimatter. In the abscence of matter, antimatter is exactly the same as matter. If we lived in such a galaxy, we would be exactly the same as we are now, cept we would call matter antimatter and antimatter matter. Because of this, we have no way of knowing for sure whether there is any natural antimatter in the universe. All we can say is that there are no regions close enough for us to observe that contain both matter and antimatter.

What do you think how an anti-neutron should exist? What would it be?

Theres more difference than just the charge between antimatter and matter. I think the other big one is magnetic moment.

[ 09-19-2003, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: andrewas ]

yep, thats about how i understood it. so basically, if space technology ever gets so far as to let us explore the universe, were we to find a galaxy made up completely of antimatter, we would be annhiliated as soon as we came to contact with the antimatter of the matter we are made of, right? this is exactly why i like physics so much; you can rant on and on about things and it doesnt get dull! or maybe im just weird...

Hmmm. To me, seems every space news is about black holes, new planets, water on the planets, etc yada yada yada. It would be a greater news when we finally discover intelligent, sensient (sp?) beings not of this earth. Now that would be real news. So where are those aliens? ;)

Somehting newest I heard from a friend I just called on the phone. He said there is an anti-molecule constructed at JPL, which has, ALL HAIL, NEGAATIVE MASS!!!! THAT MEANS GRAVITY WORKS INVERSE TO IT! PUSHES IT AWAY!!!
Nice, isn't it?

JPL dont seem to have an exotic matter or antimatter molecule, although I just searched on the obvous terms. I'll have a better look tomorrow.

For those who are interested, this is an interesting site about antimater:

http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_quest...A8809EC588EEDF

This one too

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast29may_1m.htm

I think he was playing with me. If he was, I'll so twist his neck when I see him!

Sound can exist in space, because it's not a perfect vacuum... the article you're referring to discusses the existance of super low frequency sound waves that are travelling through the super low density gas that surrounds a super massive black hole I think (lots of super stuff out there when you're discussing space [img]smile.gif[/img] )

Trust "the scientists" to spend millions of dollars to study stuff like this only to use it for a new, more devastaing bomb.

<font color=skyblue>Sometime last week, I posted a thread here about a black hole making a B flat sound that is 57 octives lower than the mid C on a Piano. It is too low for humans to hear.</font>

so thats where i read it from...

truly fascinating stuff in those links of yours BoB...thanks for the links

No problem.
P.S.
I talked to the guy who told me of the negative gravity atom. He's full of feces. I'll kill him. Any ideas how to do it?

<font color = lightgreen>The truly fascinating concept in the articles linked by Bozos of Bones is that of "reversing the time" to get mirror images. A positron is an electron travelling backwards through time. At the quantum level, it is possible to witness the spontaneous creation of an electron and a positron out of thin air, only to have the two meet again and cancel out each other; in fact, though, this would be an electron stuck in a time loop. [img]graemlins/1dizzy.gif[/img]

What we know as "sound" is just a compression wave moving through matter. As Thoran stated, space is not a perfect vacuum, thus "sound" waves are possible.

The topic currently bouncing around in my head is whether it is possible to change the "curvature" of local space-time to induce an acceleration field (gravity). I know that matter has a "gravity well" that "attracts" other matter, but since matter and energy are the same this effect should be possible by concentrating energy. Basically, inducing an acceleration field is non-Newtonian motion, an action without an equal and opposite reaction. I wish I could say the idea was an original of mine, but I saw a show two weeks ago where this scientist was interviewed (he claimed to work at S4, the most secret area at Groom Lake) and darned if he wasn't talking about a gravitic drive. *sigh* I did find an excellent book on quantum mechanics at Half Price Books which includes a chapter on curvature, so I'll have to get it. </font>

I don't know about you, but I think that "let's go back in time" is just for example. No mentioning the current impossibility to travel through time, what tells us that the time flux will be exactly the same? There are off course other points, but let's continue to answer the last thread.
Gravitic drive is a high energy manipulator device. To explain how it would work, think off gravity sling shot effects. The gravitic drive would lock on to a planets gravity, focus it and use it to propell the ship through space. NASA is currently researching the next generation(first was sling-shot launchings to further a craft's range and modify it's course), a kind of ultra-light sail which would be powered by solar beams. The volume of the sail would theoretically be used as a gravity ancor for the craft. Gravity will work maximised on the ship only under a certain angle. If a ship is very close to planet A, and a bit farther is planet B, assuming both planets have same pull force, by merely shifting the angle of the sail the craft would be drawn to planet B by more force.
The generation after that has something to do with quantuum phisics, and I'm currently studying it. More when finished.