ok, this is really pissing me off, my husband went to court about a week and a half ago over the theft charges, and the DA had no evidence, nothing to prove that he did it, or even that the money was really missing, in other words, no bank statements, no video tape, no deposit slip, no testimony, nothing. but the judge said that he just did not belive my husband was telling the truth, and there for charged him with a class C felony, is it just me, or is that like totally wrong?
my husbands-bosses-wife went and testiied on his behalf, but the judge dismissed her testimony, how is it possible that if there is no evidence, that he was convicted? do they not have to prove that there was an actual thet before he can even be charged in the first place? anyway, I am still mad about it, and would like some thoughts on this, so eel ree to vent your oppinion of the american judical system :(

[ 09-07-2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Stormymystic ]

D:

That is really sucky. Like, REALLY sucky.

As for what I think about the country's judicial system, it definately needs some work. It seems to me that anyone with actual money can get out of going to jury duty, so that tends to leave those who are of the lower class stuck there. Also, we have way too many liberal judges here in the country. Yeah, I know it's a well-known fact I don't have too much love for liberals, but I am not just saying it to say this. We have far too many judges that will even accept ludicroius cases, such as ones where a felon breaks into a home and injurs themself because, say, there was a knife left uncovered on a table, let alone judges that will go in favor of the real criminal.

Well, putting aside this case (which I can not say that much about, because I know too little about it), I think the American judicial system just sucks big time. I mean: people in America are sueing each other for throwing a peanut at each other (just an example ;) )!?! That's outrageous!

Oh, Stormy, this must be so upsetting for you, I can't imagine. I am just a little confused if you wouldn't mind clearing up a few things. I understand that your husband is charged with a Class C felony now. I understood that I think, but what I didn't understand is has he been actually CONVICTED of this class C felony? I apologize for not having this straight.

I don't know anything about this, but I think I have heard that sometimes people are convicted on the basis of "circumstantial evidence." Maybe that is what the DA has and what the judge is looking at. My understanding is that "circumstantial evidence" is not what I think most people think of as being hard evidence. But I may be wrong on this because I am not an attorney and don't really know. Just my thoughts.

rol, yeah, you would have to have kept up with it when I irst posted it, basicly, my husband went to work or a store, he was prometed to assint manager, while still in traing to be assint, they put him in ull managment, and moved him to the worst possible location, where only druggies live, and expected him to be able to manage it, even though he was still untrained, then I had my baby, one week later, she was at the doctors oice, and he came to me when I needed him, 5 minutes later, the area manager came, did an audit, and ound $5,000 missing, then they claimed that a total o $7,296 was missing, and charged him, but it just seems unny, that there were a total o 4 people who had their hand in that sae ater my husband did, then the video tape was distroyed, the bank said they ound the money, but yet charges were filed, and he was arrested, and this case has drawn out or almost 2 years, and every peice of evidence they claimed to have, either was distroyed, or they did not have in their possesion at the trial date, and they requested a continunce, and recived it

no offence, it doesnt suprise me, the judgge has so much power that it doesnt matter if there was no evedince, stupid judges

That's an abuse of power from the judge Stormy. He can point fingers at your husband all he wants but unless he has some kind of evidence that points towards him, he can't convict him of anything. Think about it.

You said there were four other people who could have taken that money right? Now money is checked at the end of every week in a store, so it could have been any of those people, it's only coincidence and bad timing that your husband was working at the time when the manager found the money missing, that's it. That's not enough to convict him on anything, that's only the "my word against yours" arguement.

I would honestly get the case taken to a different court house with a sensible judge in it, and so I hope everything works out for him Stormy.

Yep, let's face it, for all our "freedom", our government is just as corrupt as many of those we oppose.

P.S. (off topic I know but...) Umm Stormy is you "f" key working selectively or are you just typing fast and not always pressing it down far enough to make the connection?

The F key on her keyboard doesn't work very well Firestorm.

Time to get Timber in here to turn those charges over.

I am a little lost here. So was he actually convicted? Can you appeal? He does have an attorny doesn't he? Gangrell, I don't think you can just take a case like this to another court. I mean, I believe there are jurisdictional things in legal matters. But I may be wrong.

yeah, he has a lawyer, and he is ighting this, his lawyer was pissed, because there was no eveidence, and will ile an appeal, but it will go beore the same judge :( , so we are going to be ighting this or a long time, until it goes to a higher court

and the answer to the question about the f key, is I basicly have to hit it with a hammer to get it to work, lol, when I spilt the coee in it, and then cleaned it out, for some reason, the f key did not go back right, but, as I have said before, i it makes no sense, add an F to it, lol

Bless you heart! Well, I will just remember to insert an "f" into anything that looks like it needs it. LOL! Seriously, thanks for telling us, it really does help to know your "f" key is not working properly.

if things doesn't work out. get a better lawyer. it's not good to have a criminal record.

Well that may be true Reeka, but you can't just condem someone with no evidence and because you don't happen to trust them. To me, it sounds like the guy is either abusing his power or he's looking to wrap up this case fairly quick.

I know that it sucks, Gangrell, I was just saying it might not be an easy thing to do. THey should check it out though.

Stormymystic! Glad to see you drop in again even with such bad news, We missed you [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm guessing times are tough money wise for you, but is there no free legal aid available to you? It seems like a travesty of justice that with a lawyer on your side would easily be dissmissed and even damages your way. Please do all you can to get someone.

Best wishes [img]smile.gif[/img]

he does have a good lawyer, my mother-in-law is paying or him, and he objected to the conviction, but the judge threatened to hold him in content :S

This may sound odd, but does the judge have something against you and your husband? Just from what you've said, it sounds like he doesn't like you both very much [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img]

Stormy, the more I hear the worse this gets. Maybe you should PM TL and see if he has any suggestions.

lol, I have wondered this mysel, and it could be that, 1 the judges court room is right by the other judges court where my brother got off on the plea bargin, and that being the case, judge of brothers court could have *intrevened* and told this judge that we let him off.(that story is in this thread somewhere).
and 2, it could be known by said judge that my husband worked as law enforcement since he joined the army, and decided that it was time or him to see how the other half lived, this judge is notorious or convicting people, everyone is araid to go before him.\

as or PMing TL, there really is not alot he can do about it, that our lawyer is not already trying

He even does this kind of thing to other people too? Someone that does that because it's part of their tendencies should really not be in the court system, but of course there's not much to be done about it.

*Says in a hissing voice*

He's a wanker, a waaaaaaanker.... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

stormy sorry about your husbands conviction... i hope he gets cleared from it soon [img]smile.gif[/img]

The American Judical system SUCKS!!!

Stormy's right. If I got involved, even if I did it for free, it might piss off her hubby's lawyer and it would certainly increase the time HE bills for.

Are you sure it was a CONVICTION and not just a CHARGE??? Was there a trial yet or just a pre-trial hearing??? Look, there's something fishy going on here. What EVIDENCE did the state put on? Did ANYONE testify against him? Who? Officers? His boss?? The state must put on SOME evidence. If not, I'd check to see who the judge's golfing buddies are.

If he was convicted, is he free now? Is he incarcerated while awaiting sentencing?? I know it will cost, but it is imperative you force your attorney to undertake every appeal. The odds are against you on appeal -- normally the judge had to decide "against the manifest weight of the evidence" for you to win an appeal.

But, where there is a conviction on NO evidence, you can possibly win.

he has been convicted, and has to go to sentencing this month, there was no testimony against him, and no evindence, but the judge apperently thinks the charge was enough, the only testimony was for him, not against him.
he has already been to pre sentencing probation, so I know it was a conviction of a class C felony, and the woman who testified for him, said that they had no evidence, the only thing they had was on paper

[ 09-08-2003, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Stormymystic ]

Err... SM are you saying they filed charges, brought your husband to court, let the wife of his boss testify for him, then said "you're guilty"? Umm, somehow I think there must have been more to it than that?!

I hope your lawyer can fix things or have a light sentence if that's the best he can arrange. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color=skyblue>I learned on CSI Miami that if the case appears to be equal on both sides, and no tangible evidence is presented against the person...the court has to go in favor of the defence. </font>

Okay.
That totally sucks! :( :( :(

Sorry to be blunt, but pfffft. If the "beyond any reasonable doubt" standard was actually used, it'd be like the fantasy-based show The PRactice, where the defense wins 95% of the time, rather than like the reality-based Law & Order where the prosecution wins 95% of the time. Seriously, that's a real statistic.

I learned on The Roadrunner Show that you can launch a jet propelled rocket from a giant elastic band and hit the side of a cliff, then fall 200ft creating a crater on impact about 6feet deep and walk away from it.

Stormy, so you know what your husband is facing in terms of a sentence for this thing? Is probation a possibility? Do y'all have any idea at all? When is his sentencing hearing?

the lawyer assured the max he would get is a 5 yr probation time, but then that also comes after promising that we had it beat due to lack of evidence, so until the 22 of this month, there will not be a certain future, but I do know this, he is ex law enforement, and if he goes to prison, he will be killed due to all the gang members he locked away, or put in restraints while in the jail

Pardon my language and all, but it sounds like the judge has his head up his ass Stormy. How is the charge enough if there is no evidence that he did it or a testimony that was against him? I have seen a lot of this similar thing presented in The System, Forensic Files, FBI Files on Discovery, and it makes no sense to me how he gets charged with nothing pinned on him except suspicion. I know watching Court Tv doesn't make me an expert, but it gives me some basic knowledge of the court system and usually if there is nothing to be charged with, you don't go with "gut instinct" and say he's guilty anyway. That's for a jury to decide.

SM, I thought it was standard practice to make sure to put ex-police or other enforcement officials in jails away from their former precincts? I certainly hope you don't have to deal with it, but if so, I hope that's how it works!

here in Arkansas, there is no special jail, and he was put into the same pod as some he used to gaurd when he was arrested, luckly, they actually liked him, but there are the ones who had to have forceful removing to a different cell block, that is my big worry, all the jails and sub stations are being closed down for lack of funding(most of the money is going to the Clinton Library)so there is only one jail in all of the county

I can barely believe this is actually happening.

If you can't get the judge to see reason than put the judge on trial. If you think the judge is not doing his job then you should be able to get the judge in trouble. Go to another judge(s) officially or otherwise or a government official. Get the community involved. Picket. Protest. Sue.

Real sorry to hear it though.
Good Luck

You may want to consider whether or not your current lawyer is capable of defending you in the case. Law starts out in university, like many other things. Some people really know what they're studying, learn it well, and are ambassadors for their profession. Others squeak by, passing exams by the narrowest of margins and lending credence to all the stereotypes about their professions. Hey, lawyer jokes generally have their basis in fact somewhere... :D

I'm no lawyer (nor do I play one on TV), and I would wonder what the specific criteria are for the specific crime I was considered to have committed. A logical analysis of why the judge has come to this conclusion will either explain his motives and reasoning, or will leave the water sufficiently muddy that it will be apparent that there is no straightforward reason.

Once you get to that point, you have the opportunity for media publicity to sway others (i.e. politicians) to your side. I don't know how it is in Arkansas, but here, the Attorney General is an elected position... and elections are coming up next year...

I also recognize that I haven't seen or heard all the facts or testimony that were presented. There may be more to the case, and more to what's been said. That's something your current (or replacement [img]smile.gif[/img] ) lawyer would be able to address.

Good luck to you.

*B*

UK: Innocent until proven Guilty

everywhere else: Guilty until proven Innocent

I thought we started with the same basic principle here... :D