Well I have to get something out of my system.
In addition to my studies I coach kids of every grade at a learning aid institute. We're located in Austria (German=main language) and I teach German, English, Latin and sometimes Ancient Greek and Math.
I rather like working with the kids, after all they're not stupid they're just lazy and mostly start to get it if I explain properly.
BUT
there's of course that occasional troublemaker who doesn't only refuse to work but also surprises you with knowledge which makes you wanna explode.
Yesterday I had such a case again.
The loud-mouthed boy (second year of junior high)wrote the following "English" sentences (no context - just single examples)

Now for the solution. What he meant with these sentences was:

Now as this kid has passed first grade (which is when English starts in our country) I could only assume that he was provoking me. After all who could be that inept! But talking to his former coaches I found out that he supposedly writes like this all the time and refuses to learn how it's done correctly. I was shocked especially because some all too well-meaning teacher had given this boy Ds on tests and had not flunked him. Now there's a boy in second grade who can't even say "I've got a sister".

BWAAAAAH - If you excuse me. I have to take some valerian before I become demented.

[ 09-04-2003, 04:03 AM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

I can't be sure what's worse... the teacher for allowing him to pass, the parents for not caring enough to help fix this obvious learning disability, or the kid's self esteem for being obviously unable to grasp something he's being told he should know. Perhaps he's dyslexic (sp?) or has some learning disability that no one has had the patience to deal with yet? There's many possibilities that maybe you're not considering in your fustration... although, I must admit, it doesn't look good for the kid.

I've worked with dyslexic kids believe me when I say he is not. The problem is that he is completely unwilling to work on his apparent mistakes and no form of motivation will get through to him. Also as his coach/tutor I have only limited possibilities. As long as he still gets Ds at school he's going to be content - and worse: his parents are going to be content.
What I don't get is the complete lack of sense in his expressions. Normally kids write Germanised sentences like: "I've a cat" but they all know/sense that a sentence requires a predicate (last example) or what "I am" means.
What strikes me is that he ought to know that "I'm a sister" (corrected spelling) doesn't mean what he wants to say but uses it anyway.

There is no such thing as a kid that can 'have influence on his or her tutoring' IMHO. The kid is learned specific things, and he or she hasn't got any input in that matter, whether he likes it or not. This is just ridiculous, especially since the parents don't do a thing about it. :mad:

That's a shame, but you can only do so much.

For your own health and happiness, you might want to consider letting go of this case if it becomes clear that no amount of hard work you put in is going to result in any difference to his performance.

How about his parents? They can be involved and encourage him to do better. I think it starts with the parents not just the responsibility of the educators.

ROFLMAO! If he's an Asian I'm not suprise he'll wrote/type like that. :D

Now why would that be? [img]graemlins/uhoh2.gif[/img]
BTW He's an Austrian just like me (although my father is an Indian and my grandmother was a Czech and my grandfather was a German and ... you get the picture)

Unfortunately this is not an option. I teach at an institute and he is part of one of my learning groups. He has purchased his courses and somebody's gonna have to teach him. My bad that my boss decided it should be me but I can't change anything about it.

I've already consulted my colleagues (who taught him first) and my boss about telling his parents that their son knows diddly-squat of the English language. They told me they had already tried but as long as he does not fail exams at school the parents are happy and not to be convinced to influence their child respectively.

[ 09-04-2003, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

Since failure appears to be the ONE thing that will get the attention of both this kid and his parents, why not simply fail him in the course???? Passing him with a "D" may be the path of least resistance but it doesn't address the problem. I am more than a little amazed that this "student" can actually achieve a passing mark on exams unless the pass/fail boundary is set artificially low. How much control do you have over the exams and the grading? Can you change the basis on which grades are awarded so that in-class work counts for a substantial amount of the final grade?

[ 09-04-2003, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Micah Foehammer ]

<font color = lightgreen>Having been an instructor myself, all I would have to say to this person is "don't come in my class, because I am not afraid to give you an F and then stand by my decision". If he wants to fail on purpose, then by all means give him what he wants.</font>

Now why would that be? [img]graemlins/uhoh2.gif[/img]
BTW He's an Austrian just like me (although my father is an Indian and my grandmother was a Czech and my grandfather was a German and ... you get the picture)</font>[/QUOTE]ever heard of Manglish ( Mandirin English ) before? though Singlish ( Singaporean English ) is pretty similar too. ;)

Micah, Azred, I could be wrong, but I think Faceman is not the one responsible for the boy's grades. As far as I can tell, he is there to teach the boy as an extracurricular (out-of-regular-school) teacher. The teacher giving the boy D's must then be his regular teacher. Perhaps conferring with said teacher might aid the situation?

Exactly! I'm only coaching him out of school to "aid his learning efforts" except that there are none. I can give him homework and tests but regardless how he finishes them I cannot "fail" him because he has no "goal" to accomplish at my class. I probably will try to get in touch with his regular teacher and let you know how it turned out.

Sometimes I wonder about cases like this one: Why don't I tell the guy to die stupid if he wants to and concentrate more on the rest of my class? I guess I just can't give up on kids. Pretty pathetic.

(offtopic)
tell the kid to stop using AOL :D

"OMGWTFLOLzoRZ!!!11!!1!1 ths grt yll!!1!!1!"

bad english capital of the world :D :
www.engrish.com
(/offtopic)

seriosly though, there is little you can do to help someone who doesnt want helping. the only thing you could do is talk to him. ask him why he doesnt care maby?

[ 09-05-2003, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Zero Alpha ]

Are you sure he hasn't got some kind of attention disorder like ADHD or similar? So he's on Junior High...how are his former grades? Any problems with the parents?

You should talk to his regular teacher(s), and if he's just lazy they should give him an F, no excuses. I assume what you perform on regular classes has an influence on your final grade, right?

Well I don't think it's ADHD, because some people say I have it (and I'm definitely NOT like that). ADHD symptoms are that you're extremely tense all the time, wanting to do things, whatever time it is, right? If he's not spoiled, then I would just say that he has a wrong attitude, and there's a simple and effective solution to that problem: just punish him for it.

[ 09-05-2003, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Link ]

It's hard when you care... it really is. You see what they could be, if only...

Sometimes, the most powerful message you can send is "no thanks". Even though his parents have paid for the extra tutoring package, if you were to come back after a bit and tell them to forget it, that since their son isn't interested in learning and improving, there's no sense in wasting their money or your time.

It's not fun to give up, but some times it's the right decision.

A possible response would be that since you're the hot-shot coach, you should be able to figure out how to motivate him to want to learn. My counter-response would be that good people make a bad system work, while bad people make a good system fail. Until he chooses to be successful, he will probably never get there.

There's no way that kid is dyslexic, just lazy. I mean, I only did German for three years, and two of those years were with a teacher who liked to dress in frilly pink aprons, climb on the desk, claim he was a fairy and ask us to call him "Marmaduke", and I know how to say, "I have a sister".

<font color = lightgreen>Well, perhaps I am being a little hard on the student...but that is better than being too soft. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] </font>

Then say it, I dare you :D

-
Sad and ontopic:

Talked to my boss and it turns out that "our" solution will be to just ignore this problem as long as he does well on tests. His parents have been spoken to but don't care and since "our job" (i.e. what we are paid for) is to coach kids NOT to fail classes it would be kinda weird to ask his regular teachers to fail him, at least my boss forbid me to :(
I dah a short feeling of "I gotta stand up for this" but then - reality check:"I'm poor and I'm not risking my job for a lazy spoiled kid"
So he'll keep writing sentences like: "The mann the dog the stik" ("The man throws the stick for the dog to catch") and I'll keep reading him the exact German translation loud in front of the class and they'll be laughing and he'll be laughing (though I don't quite get why he does) and I'll have no other motivational tool left. *sigh* well there are still my Latin students. At least they have SOME senses.

Heh, what I meant (and would do if it were me)was, to give it my best shot at improving him. But if he does not respond despite my efforts, I would detach myself a few steps. Ie, I would continue coaching him (it is, after all, my job) and do what my superiors wanted, but as far as the boy is concerned, I would not harbour any more illusions about changing him.

There are people who would stand up for what they believe in, even risk their jobs. I agree that this kid is just not worth the sacrifice.

I sometimes wish I was such a person. - I am not.
I have a hard enough time paying my monthly costs and I'm not a saint to risk my monthly income for someone who doesn't even appreciate.

A teachers job is to give the neccessary information and to act as a 'guide' but it's entirely up to student if he wants to learn anything or not. If a student fails a course it's just as much his fault as the teachers.

His parents don't seem to have very high expectations of him and I wonder what he does in school at all if he's not willing to learn.

I would continue to tutor him but I wouldn't have too much hope to change him. That's up to him and he have to learn to take some responsibility.

"Ich habe eine Schwester." (dunno if it's eine oder einen)

Exactly! I'm only coaching him out of school to "aid his learning efforts" except that there are none. I can give him homework and tests but regardless how he finishes them I cannot "fail" him because he has no "goal" to accomplish at my class. I probably will try to get in touch with his regular teacher and let you know how it turned out.

Sometimes I wonder about cases like this one: Why don't I tell the guy to die stupid if he wants to and concentrate more on the rest of my class? I guess I just can't give up on kids. Pretty pathetic. </font>[/QUOTE]Ah, well that information changes the situation. Didn't realize you didn't have control over the grading.